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Oil leaks are getting bad       #: 2326
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 Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2021 09:24 pm
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wh23g3g
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 I posted awhile back to see if it was possible to replace the oil pan gasket on the 2.5 without removing the engine. I see that according to the posts it probably would be too difficult to attempt and probably wouldn't work. Anyway I've been riding on it since then and just adding oil. The front crank seal, rear main seal, oil pump gasket, and oil pan all seem to be leaking. The front crank seal seems to be the worst of it and actually the oil pan the least of it. The engine probably has over 200,000 but not sure because it was replaced out of state by a shadetree shop when the original engine spun a bearing at 228,000 miles. So there wasn't a lengthy repair bill just a receipt showing that it was replaced. No idea what the mileage was on the used engine at that time. I was told it might be around 50,000 when it was put in. The whole truck now has 405,000 miles. I'm going to hang on to it for awhile. It runs perfect and drives good. I have a new Jeep so I don't drive this Ranger everyday but still drive it more than my new Jeep. Was wondering is it better to just have the shop pull the engine and fix all the seals and gaskets? Or should I buy a remanufactured engine or used engine? The remanufactured engines are over $2000, even more than a 3.0 or 4.0. The shop said it would be $1000+ but that would entail a new timing belt when the crank seal is replaced so I don't know how much extra that would be. I know I only got 228,000 miles on my original engine and the oil was always changed at 3,000 miles. Is that about their lifespan? Anyone else have high mileage without touching the bottom end?

Last edited on Thu Feb 25th, 2021 09:26 pm by wh23g3g



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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2021 06:23 pm
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Eddie Money
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 My 1999 ranger sport 4x4 4.0L V6 had 200k miles when It was sold. I had meticulously maintained it since I inherited it from my grandfather's estate. I think it would have easily done another 100k miles. I sold it to a friend who bought it for his daughter after she had her first child. I made sure everything on it worked. Unfortunately she let the boyfriend drive it and he put it on its 

In not sure how to answer your question since you have a replacement vehicle. Older rangers can be had at around the price of the engine swap, so I dont know if I'd go through the trouble of swapping out a V6 for another V6. If you were still loving your ranger I'd recommend doing the V8 swap. I'm guessing the ranger is on borrowed time since the jeep arrived

If you need a light truck around to do some dirty work and keep the miles down on the jeep I'd just look for another ranger if it were me.

I dont have a jeep or s 2nd truck. I'm still in love with my 07 ranger so I opted to for the V8 swap even though mine only had a 140k or so and had zero issues.

Last edited on Fri Feb 26th, 2021 06:26 pm by Eddie Money



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 Posted: Sat Feb 27th, 2021 12:10 am
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Ordinary Biker
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 I got 263,000 out of my '98 2.5.  Coincidentally all on the original clutch also.  It probably could have gone to 300,000
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 Posted: Sat Feb 27th, 2021 12:39 am
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wh23g3g
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 I haven't figured out yet what I'm going to do. The engine runs great. If I put a new cylinder head on it would probably run like it had 0 miles on it. It doesn't make any odd noises, has same amount of power as it always has, the oil pressure gets up quick as soon as it fires. I looked under the engine yesterday and there was oil everywhere on the bottom side all the way back to the transmission. It was all oil, no transmission fluid. Transmission is good and strong. I just recently had the front end, brakes, and rear end all redone within the last 2 years. I know I could probably find a better Ranger with a V6, 4x4, and power everything but then I don't know how it was taken care of. This one I've had since it was new and I know it's been cared for. I'm going to clean everything off underneath and do the engine oil dye to see exactly where the oil is coming from. No question it is coming from the front crank seal. It's probably the worst. I'm not sure it's coming from the oil pump gasket. At the very least if I do the oil pan, rear, and crank seal the engine will have to come out because of the oil pan. Timing belt has to be removed for the crank seal so that's got to be changed. I don't want to replace the oil pump and add more labor. If I had the time and an open spot in the garage I would probably tackle it myself but no longer have the tools or the space.



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 Posted: Sun Feb 28th, 2021 10:18 am
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 Seeing where the oil is coming from is a good start.  If you can find a port in which to put an actual oil pressure gage, reading this might give an idea of the health of the bearings.  I was just reading on the other forum that a very general rule of thumb is 10psi per 1000 rpm.  So 10psi at idle and 30psi at 3000 rpm.  Plus how quickly the pressure drops back to 0 after shut off.  

Yeah, the rear seal would take more work.  But pulling the timing belt on the 2.5 is easy peasy.  I installed a new on on mine when it broke, probably only took 2 hours, and that was with lining it up.  Which you don't have...
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 Posted: Sat Mar 13th, 2021 08:52 am
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 After the Oil Pressure check do a compression check on the all cylinders, putting a new head on with new head gasket and bolts can create more pressure than the rings can handle.

If the engine is running good, and your only problems is the oil leaks, then it could be worth pulling the motor and replacing all the Oil Sealing Gaskets and not fool with the head gasket at all.

IF the compression is in the normal range, your spark plugs look as if they have been burning normally, (Nice light brown haze over them), and your oil pressure is in a good range then a head gasket might work out for the better.

While you have the front cover off, replacing the gasket, you might do a timing chain, also it would be easier to replace the water now at this time.
When you replace the Oil Pan gasket, clean out the oil pan, see what is in the bottom of the pan... clean the pickup also.
Replacing the oil pump sounds like a good idea but unless your oil pressure is low it is your call about changing it.

Last but not least, replace the Clutch assembly, the pilot bearing, AND get the Flywheel resurfaced.  Resurfacing the flywheel is subjective. you can and the best way, would be to send it to a Machine Shop that handles that work and have them do it, BUT it is possible to grab a hand grinder and with care run over the flywheel, using a back and forth motion while moving around the flywheel contact area.

You can do all of these things, put the motor back in and fins out one of the sensors you removed and replaced isn't working now that it has been moved, be prepared to do some diagnostics if something isn't working as it did, AND nothing say the motor will run the same and won't cause you grief.

Before you start your resealing and part replacement project... check out a new long block, maybe some sort of upgraded version of your motor is something to consider IF you go the Long Block Replacement route.

What I wrote is how I would approach your truck project... IF I wanted to try and get another 100+ K miles out of her.
Not meant to be a guide just recommendations and to get an idea of what might be done to make sure you won't need to do additional work on the drive train after doing the oil seals.

Good Luck on your choices.



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 Posted: Sun Mar 14th, 2021 03:40 am
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wh23g3g
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 I had a compression check done within the last year. I don't remember what the psi was but the mechanic told me that all 4 cylinders were good. I remembered it mirrored what I had come up with on my own when I did it trying to diagnose a misfire. That was all taken care of after I switched all the ignition parts to Motorcraft. I've learned finally not to mess with the cheaper alternative aftermarket brands of wires and expermenting with spark plugs. Although I believe most of it was in the coils and the plugs being the smallest part of the overall misfire. That was about 30,000 miles ago and it's still running great just a mess with the oil underneath most looking like it's from the front crank seal. I talked to the shop and they said it would be right at $1000 to pull the engine replace all the gaskets, replace timing belt, and motor mounts, oil pump if I want to, go ahead and install a front transmission pump seal, and reinstall everything. They said to go ahead and get the full gasket set and they will replace every gasket except the head gasket because it may cause more problems by messing with it. They said they could do the oil pressure check but recommended doing an oil analysis if I want to find out more information on the condition of the bearings without taking the engine totally apart. So I bought a WIX oil analysis kit and I'm going to send off a sample to make sure nothing unusual in the oil.



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 Posted: Sun Mar 14th, 2021 02:31 pm
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 Pretty much what I was saying don't touch the head gasket or replace the head unless it completely necessary.
Oil diagnostics, interesting stuff, I'm guessing but it is needed !
Drain your oil, catch it in a oil drain PAN, look at it if there is a metallic sheen then you have more metal in there than needed and then you turn to the oil pressure check.  If the oil pressure check say you oil pressure is ok then the bearings are usually ok, change your oil a little more often.
Problem...  the miles you have on your truck, yes you can get another 100K miles but watch the oil pressure.
If you drive 2-3K miles a month, change your oil filter more often than higher mileage driving; if you think you have a problem or are watching for one, change your oil once a month for 2 to 3 months and see what the oil looks like.
If all is good, then use a High Milage Oil, I like the Valvoline High Milage.
Don't change to to a Synthetic Oil with 200K+ miles,  sometimes the Syth-Oil can cause minor oil leakage especially on pressure point gaskets and seals.

Do you know which gaskets are leaking ?

If the only gasket(s) that are leaking are the Valve Cover and the Front Cover then stick to those and replace the Timing belt while things are apart.
Losing a timing belt can be be cause serious damage... IF this engine is one of the minimum clearance engine Ford did use for a while, not sure if it is.

So many things to check on, the main things.. oil pressure, oil changes, filter changes, is it running ok.

Good Luck and keep posting what you are doing.

p.s.
If you haunt already done it, pressure wash the engine bay.
Run the engine for a while, using a Black Light (BL), if you have one, oil leaks will show up with the BL.
Then you can determine your next move.

Last edited on Sun Mar 14th, 2021 03:54 pm by Scrambler82



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2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Sun Mar 14th, 2021 08:25 pm
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wh23g3g
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 It's been 3,000 since I last changed the oil. So I drove it a good while to get it up to operating temperature. I been driving it all day. I let it cool off for 30 minutes then drained it and caught the oil sample midway like it said. I'll send in the sample just to see what's on the report. Except I remembered how am I suppose to send an oil sample in the mail. I don't know if that will be a problem. Once it gets back I'm going to show the results to the mechanic. The engine runs good. It's properly tuned and oil is always changed at 3,000 miles. I never use synthetic oil. Most of the time it's conventional or a high mileage oil. Most of the oil is coming from the front seal. The oil pan is starting to seep on the passenger side probably due to being next to the exhaust manifold plus the age. So it's going to have to come out to be fixed. One seal I was forgetting about was the valve stem seals. Should I have them swapped while it's out? They have the means to do it without removing the head.



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 Posted: Sun Mar 14th, 2021 08:41 pm
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 Post the finding when you get them.

Taking the engine out may save time and effort but I would pressure wash (low pressure) the engine bay before hand and trace the actual leak or leaks FIRST;  then you can determine if the motor really has to come out.

Also, if/when you take the motor out or not, do the rear main seal, it has to be leak ing by now.

You are taking a major step here, all dependent on two things, one how many more miles this engine will survive, also, removing it and getting all of the sets and worn parts out of it.   A good move IF you believe the engine will live but questionable if these engines won't last.
I don't know which engine will live longer than others BUT... thinking outlaid, have you priced a long block replacement for your motor.
I haven't followed the prices lately but it would be interesting to see just how much a long block would run you.  You would use a lot of your bolt-on pieces and you wouldn't have to replace any seals because most of the long blocks come with new OEM approved gasket set.

Might be worth the look and compare old to new.

At least I'm not trying to talk you into a 5.0L-W !  LoL !

Keep Posting !

If I am coming on too strong here, please just say so !



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Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Sun Mar 14th, 2021 09:16 pm
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wh23g3g
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 That was my first option to look at the price of a remanufactured long block. It's definitely not worth that. The 2.5 engines cost more than the 3.0 and 4.0's. It's like $2500. It's the cylinder head that costs so much. It's ok to put a $1000 in it every few years. Not to mention when I get a new long block other things will have to be purchased to ensure it is new condition, water pump, thermostat, plugs, wires, egr, intakes will have to be hot tanked, all various sensors. Also I noticed you cannot even get a new oil pump screen for this engine anymore. Although you could attempt to clean it, it wouldn't be totally new going into a reconditioned engine. I did refurbish the a/c system last year but I think I paid $200 or less for the whole system. Everything was replaced except the condenser. The aftermarket condenser wouldn't seal to the new hoses so I had to have the original leak checked, flushed, and repaired. For the past 2 years I haven't had to buy anything other than oil changes. I still drive it probably normal about 15,000 miles or more a year. It gets driven more than my 2019 Jeep. It also doesn't look very good anymore since it has a few dents on the passenger side so it doesn't even get washed anymore. Interior is good, with recent carpet 3 or 4 years ago.



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 Posted: Sun Mar 14th, 2021 09:31 pm
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 I didn't know the cost for a 4 cylinder long block was so high.

You have done your Homework, so you are taking the best approach.

Good Luck on this project, the engine will probably last you another 200K miles.

Later



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2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Tue Mar 30th, 2021 10:27 am
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 I keep rereading your thread AND thinking... SMOKE poring out of my head !
I'm not overly familiar with what 4-cylinder fits what or the electrics involved for each one but are there any newer versions of that engine, that can be used as a replacement, maybe some salvage yard has a low mileage engine, all the wiring and the such to make a good conversion !
I know I was impressed with my '95 Short bed single cab... GREEN for Jamman, I think it was the 2.3L, 5sp, it had 8 plugs and had two coils for the spark; great motor... but you need something newer I know.
Before I took the time to rebuild a 200K + Motor I would look at all the options, and a low mileage engine could fill the gap and get you up and running oil leak free and cost you an arm and a leg !



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Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Tue Mar 30th, 2021 09:26 pm
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 Scrambler82 wrote:
I keep rereading your thread AND thinking... SMOKE poring out of my head !
I'm not overly familiar with what 4-cylinder fits what or the electrics involved for each one but are there any newer versions of that engine, that can be used as a replacement, maybe some salvage yard has a low mileage engine, all the wiring and the such to make a good conversion !
I know I was impressed with my '95 Short bed single cab... GREEN for Jamman, I think it was the 2.3L, 5sp, it had 8 plugs and had two coils for the spark; great motor... but you need something newer I know.
Before I took the time to rebuild a 200K + Motor I would look at all the options, and a low mileage engine could fill the gap and get you up and running oil leak free and cost you an arm and a leg !
I didn't know that the 2.3l used the 8 plug set up.  Sound like the 2.5l.  I had that in my '98 single cab step side.  Great truck.  Wasn't fast, but it was reliable, and cheap.  Would get 25-26mpg going to work.  Had 263,000 miles on one engine, and the original clutch when it got wrecked.
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 Posted: Tue Mar 30th, 2021 10:01 pm
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 I did an oil analysis to get some idea of the condition of the bearings and how much metal is in the oil over 3,000 miles. It came back pretty low. It's actually in pretty good shape internally. I did the compression test twice last year and all cylinders were good. So I was trying to see if it was worth pulling it and resealing it. It might be now. Would do seal and gasket but the head. That's what the shop recommended.



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 Posted: Tue Mar 30th, 2021 10:59 pm
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 Ordinary Biker wrote:
Scrambler82 wrote:

I keep rereading your thread AND thinking... SMOKE poring out of my head !
I'm not overly familiar with what 4-cylinder fits what or the electrics involved for each one but are there any newer versions of that engine, that can be used as a replacement, maybe some salvage yard has a low mileage engine, all the wiring and the such to make a good conversion !
I know I was impressed with my '95 Short bed single cab... GREEN for Jamman, I think it was the 2.3L, 5sp, it had 8 plugs and had two coils for the spark; great motor... but you need something newer I know.
Before I took the time to rebuild a 200K + Motor I would look at all the options, and a low mileage engine could fill the gap and get you up and running oil leak free and cost you an arm and a leg !
I didn't know that the 2.3l used the 8 plug set up.  Sound like the 2.5l.  I had that in my '98 single cab step side.  Great  truck.  Wasn't fast, but it was reliable, and cheap.  Would get 25-26mpg going to work.  Had 263,000 miles on one engine, and the original clutch when it got wrecked.
OK, as I said I don't know the 4's as well as I might, so I always thought it was a 2.3L... I learned something today, thanks.

Good MPG, 24 ~ mpg... but in the snow is $ucked !



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Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Tue Mar 30th, 2021 11:08 pm
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 I've got the 2.3 Lima, 2.5 Lima, and I've had a 4.0 OHV. The year 2001 was the last year for the 2.5 Lima engines in the Ranger. I think they went with the Mazda 2.3 DOHC after that. I've never liked the 3.0 Vulcan's but I did have a Taurus one time but it was an SHO and a 3.2 Yahama.



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 Posted: Tue Apr 27th, 2021 11:50 pm
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 Just want to point out that on the 2.3/2.5 Limas, a leaking oil pump can easily be misdiagnosed as a front crank seal, as that is what I originally thought I had before tearing off the timing cover. 

Oil pumps on these are "cartridge" style that slide into the front of the block. 

I documented it 6 years ago here:
http://www.fordrangerforum.com/4-cylinder-tech/123829-oil-pump-oil-leak.html



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 Posted: Wed Apr 28th, 2021 06:54 am
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 sheltonfilms wrote:
Just want to point out that on the 2.3/2.5 Limas, a leaking oil pump can easily be misdiagnosed as a front crank seal, as that is what I originally thought I had before tearing off the timing cover. 

Oil pumps on these are "cartridge" style that slide into the front of the block. 

I documented it 6 years ago here:
http://www.fordrangerforum.com/4-cylinder-tech/123829-oil-pump-oil-leak.html
It is always good to see you share your knowledge Anthony!

Edit: I forgot, I am banned on that forum because the mods other there are immature useless twats

Last edited on Wed Apr 28th, 2021 07:05 am by Ordinary Biker
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 Posted: Thu Apr 29th, 2021 08:56 pm
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JAMMAN

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 LOL this forum exists because of crap over there. I paid for a premium membership, they ended up with a virus and the admins stayed gone for like 6 months. It was so bad I PM'ed every new member there for the NEXT 6 months dragging like 2 out of every 5 I spammed over here. Then an admin shows up, a year later I had my stickers from them and my own forum. LOL carry on



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Ford-Rangers.com Ranger Forum > Ranger Engine Tech > 4 Cylinder Gasoline > Oil leaks are getting bad

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