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Why Hydraulic Clutches?       #: 1040
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 Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2018 07:15 pm
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jeff18
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 This is an oddball question of sorts. Why are clutches hydraulically operated instead of cable operated? Is it simply the level of effort required to operate the clutch?
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 Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2018 09:31 pm
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 Yes! The only reason. It certainly isn't reliability.



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 Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2018 10:00 pm
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Dreaded sled
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 Just more dependable really . Cable can be setup dead on and work but after time the cable will stretch. Mustangs and such nowadays have upgrade cable setups where it's self adjusting now . But in the end is still a weak link in my eyes . Why I converted a t5 to hydro . Plus I would of had to brace the bulkhead in the cable area and fab a pedal end to weld to the stock pedal to except a cable . It's been down but more work then I feel then benifits



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 Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2018 10:16 pm
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 I never heard of a cable only giving out. They stretch, you turn the nut a couple, they are back at top.

You are a trans guy, which didn't sound right, but have you ever seen one of those fat cables snap?



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 Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2018 10:22 pm
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black06xlt
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 When I had my Mustang I broke 2 clutch cables. The factory one and the ford racing one that I replaced the stock one with. So it can happen



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 Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2018 10:25 pm
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 OK I stand corrected. Putting a pivot mechanism in front of a hydraulic cylinder pushing fluid through a small tube to another hydraulic cylinder connected to a pivot mechanism pushing a clutch in by evidence seems to be more reliable than just a cable. I would have never guessed it.



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 Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2018 10:46 pm
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black06xlt
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 JAMMAN wrote:
OK I stand corrected. Putting a pivot mechanism in front of a hydraulic cylinder pushing fluid through a small tube to another hydraulic cylinder connected to a pivot mechanism pushing a clutch in by evidence seems to be more reliable than just a cable. I would have never guessed it.
LOL That's alot going on



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 Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2018 10:46 pm
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black06xlt
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 JAMMAN wrote:
OK I stand corrected. Putting a pivot mechanism in front of a hydraulic cylinder pushing fluid through a small tube to another hydraulic cylinder connected to a pivot mechanism pushing a clutch in by evidence seems to be more reliable than just a cable. I would have never guessed it.



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 Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2018 11:39 pm
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 Back in the day it used to be a rod going through a hole in the firewall that had a flexible rubber grommet. After 8 or 9 years that flexible rubber grommet had rotted. It would allow cold air in during the winter and if you were into wading water it would make the floorboard wet.

Then there was the adjustment tube or whatever you call it. If you had it set up too loose for maximum engagement, it could pop out during shifting leaving you in gear and in a fix. I carried a spare when I had my '72 F-100.



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 Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2018 12:01 am
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 JAMMAN wrote:
I never heard of a cable only giving out. They stretch, you turn the nut a couple, they are back at top.

You are a trans guy, which didn't sound right, but have you ever seen one of those fat cables snap?
Notorious issue on Pre 92 Honda's even..



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 Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2018 01:49 am
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Dreaded sled
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 Undrstm8ed wrote:
JAMMAN wrote:

I never heard of a cable only giving out. They stretch, you turn the nut a couple, they are back at top.

You are a trans guy, which didn't sound right, but have you ever seen one of those fat cables snap?
Notorious issue on Pre 92 Honda's even..
Honda's was my first taste of cable setups and   that can go wrong . When right they right , but they do fail either from stretch or just snapping , hydro fails over time also so not like either are perfect  .   I just snapped a bike brake cable just not to long ago , that wasnt cool riding through trails

In the end the ranger was setup with hydro with provisions there to bolt up . It took me making a brake slave mount with 4 holes to bolt to the side of the trans to keep it like that . Trying to keep the trans cable would of been way more work in MY eyes . Yes the mustang rocked a cable all the way up to early 2000's . But even they finally went hydro .

Last edited on Tue Jul 10th, 2018 01:50 am by Dreaded sled



____________________
A truly educated man never graduates.
94 flatbed 5.0 t5 powered w/ a expo rear ,sideways kickin dd
87 rx7 13b 6port mounted to a holset hx52 turbo , scary 😈
08 tbss cam’d and slammed, wife’s weekend warrior queen
18 Alfa Giulia , wife’s new fancy dd
17 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio . Our date night ride
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 Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2018 02:04 am
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Dreaded sled
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 JAMMAN wrote:
I never heard of a cable only giving out. They stretch, you turn the nut a couple, they are back at top.

You are a trans guy, which didn't sound right, but have you ever seen one of those fat cables snap?
And to anwesr your question yes I have seen a cable snap , do to not being setup right , age again like I said above , premature failure do to rusted out cable , or just faulty out the box .... which all these also happen to Emergency brake cables



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A truly educated man never graduates.
94 flatbed 5.0 t5 powered w/ a expo rear ,sideways kickin dd
87 rx7 13b 6port mounted to a holset hx52 turbo , scary 😈
08 tbss cam’d and slammed, wife’s weekend warrior queen
18 Alfa Giulia , wife’s new fancy dd
17 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio . Our date night ride
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 Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2018 02:30 am
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 Dreaded sled wrote:
Undrstm8ed wrote:

JAMMAN wrote:


I never heard of a cable only giving out. They stretch, you turn the nut a couple, they are back at top.

You are a trans guy, which didn't sound right, but have you ever seen one of those fat cables snap?
Notorious issue on Pre 92 Honda's even..
Honda's was my first taste of cable setups and   that can go wrong . When right they right , but they do fail either from stretch or just snapping , hydro fails over time also so not like either are perfect  .   I just snapped a bike brake cable just not to long ago , that wasnt cool riding through trails

In the end the ranger was setup with hydro with provisions there to bolt up . It took me making a brake slave mount with 4 holes to bolt to the side of the trans to keep it like that . Trying to keep the trans cable would of been way more work in MY eyes . Yes the mustang rocked a cable all the way up to early 2000's . But even they finally went hydro .
Yup, all those DA's with cable trans and everyone trying to load B16 or B18B/C in them, same with the old school EF's and ED's. Then 92 the Civics all came with Hydro and in 94' the DB8's, DC2 Teggy's... Oh yes.. And then the Hydro to cable conversion kits from JHP and Hasport were all the rage.. LOL good times.. Stupid fast grocery-go-getters !



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 Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2018 09:15 am
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410customs

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 Hydraulic or cable, I can work with either. But how about we put the damn slave cylinder on the outside and use a shift fork????? Internal slave cylinder be dammed!!

I love the adjustable pedal on the mustangs...wish the ranger had that feature



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 Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2018 09:18 am
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Dreaded sled
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 Undrstm8ed wrote:
Dreaded sled wrote:

Undrstm8ed wrote:


JAMMAN wrote:



I never heard of a cable only giving out. They stretch, you turn the nut a couple, they are back at top.

You are a trans guy, which didn't sound right, but have you ever seen one of those fat cables snap?
Notorious issue on Pre 92 Honda's even..
Honda's was my first taste of cable setups and   that can go wrong . When right they right , but they do fail either from stretch or just snapping , hydro fails over time also so not like either are perfect  .   I just snapped a bike brake cable just not to long ago , that wasnt cool riding through trails

In the end the ranger was setup with hydro with provisions there to bolt up . It took me making a brake slave mount with 4 holes to bolt to the side of the trans to keep it like that . Trying to keep the trans cable would of been way more work in MY eyes . Yes the mustang rocked a cable all the way up to early 2000's . But even they finally went hydro .
Yup, all those DA's with cable trans and everyone trying to load B16 or B18B/C in them, same with the old school EF's and ED's. Then 92 the Civics all came with Hydro and in 94' the DB8's, DC2 Teggy's... Oh yes.. And then the Hydro to cable conversion kits from JHP and Hasport were all the rage.. LOL good times.. Stupid fast grocery-go-getters !

Man anything that said hasport back then was like gold lol . Da's have a soft spot in me heart . One day maybe I'll build one again . Always wanted to go b20 boosted non vtec , dc gsr trans ( third gear pulls all day on the highway ).. dreams ....

Last edited on Tue Jul 10th, 2018 09:40 am by Dreaded sled



____________________
A truly educated man never graduates.
94 flatbed 5.0 t5 powered w/ a expo rear ,sideways kickin dd
87 rx7 13b 6port mounted to a holset hx52 turbo , scary 😈
08 tbss cam’d and slammed, wife’s weekend warrior queen
18 Alfa Giulia , wife’s new fancy dd
17 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio . Our date night ride
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 Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2018 09:38 am
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Dreaded sled
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 410customs wrote:
Hydraulic or cable, I can work with either. But how about we put the damn slave cylinder on the outside and use a shift fork????? Internal slave cylinder be dammed!!

I love the adjustable pedal on the mustangs...wish the ranger had that feature
That's what I'm sayin brotha . Internal slaves on so many  vehicles now . Which sucks when they go . Have to pull a trans out to to replace . then clutch disc gets soaked half the time so now you gotta replace that  . I always wondered why ford made a Crazy designed master myself . But I guess the transmissions  they had  available for our platform had no room for one with a fork . They had t5's Laying around for the stangs still . pretty sure if people like us can make a homemade bracket to mount a slave and weld a small washer to the fork . Then they could of also . My t5 has held up perfect besides the second gear synchro that was bad already when I got it . It came out a 4 banger svo also which people said would be a no go and I'd break it right away . Besides the input shaft pilot snot being smaller ( Found a conversion roller bearing ) it pretty much just a t5 that came with a stock hurst shifter and a different overdrive that was shorter )



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A truly educated man never graduates.
94 flatbed 5.0 t5 powered w/ a expo rear ,sideways kickin dd
87 rx7 13b 6port mounted to a holset hx52 turbo , scary 😈
08 tbss cam’d and slammed, wife’s weekend warrior queen
18 Alfa Giulia , wife’s new fancy dd
17 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio . Our date night ride
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 Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2018 10:07 am
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 JAMMAN wrote:
Yes! The only reason. It certainly isn't reliability.
The same thing I was thinking. I had an '85 F150 and I had the slave cylinder go out,no fun not being able to get it out of gear. I went to replace it and while bleeding it the bleed screw stripped out just after a few times trying to bleed it. I went back to the parts store and got a replacement,the same thing happened to it. I said to heck with those and went to a different parts store,they had a different brand that worked. A few years later the pin holding the line into the master cylinder rusted out and the line blew out,again no clutch. I replaced the master cylinder and line since the ends of the line was rusted too. Low and behold a few more years and the damn slave cylinder went out again. I had that truck about 18 years and had the hydraulic system fail 3 times and that's on top of the clutch going out twice and the transmission once.



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 Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2018 10:17 am
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 FYI people DONT USE CHEAP SLAVE CYLINDERS!
The pro-torque POS ones they sell at Oreillys MIGHT last 3 months and that's a huge MIGHT



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 JAMMAN wrote:
I never heard of a cable only giving out. They stretch, you turn the nut a couple, they are back at top.

You are a trans guy, which didn't sound right, but have you ever seen one of those fat cables snap?
A buddy had an old VW bug that would eat clutch cables.  So bad he always had a spare.  The one time he didn't we had to start the thing in gear  and try to match close enough to shift, to get home in a blizzard in rural Colorado.  Not fun.
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 Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2018 10:52 am
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 410customs wrote:
FYI people DONT USE CHEAP SLAVE CYLINDERS!
The pro-torque POS ones they sell at Oreillys MIGHT last 3 months and that's a huge MIGHT
We don't even have an Oreilleys here,all we have are Autozone,Advance Auto and NAPA. I don't remember which store I got them from now. Probably Autozone or Advance for the first ones and NAPA for the last one but not sure. Anymore NAPA is the first place I go because I've had so many crappy parts from the other 2 stores. Now I only go to them if NAPA or the Ford Dealer don't have what I need is which extremely rare.



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 Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2018 03:25 pm
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Undrstm8ed
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 Ordinary Biker wrote:
JAMMAN wrote:

I never heard of a cable only giving out. They stretch, you turn the nut a couple, they are back at top.

You are a trans guy, which didn't sound right, but have you ever seen one of those fat cables snap?
A buddy had an old VW bug that would eat clutch cables.  So bad he always had a spare.  The one time he didn't we had to start the thing in gear  and try to match close enough to shift, to get home in a blizzard in rural Colorado.  Not fun.
HA! He said float-shifting.. I learned how to do that in a Renault Alliance way back in the day and agreed.. NOT a fun drive, not even for a get me home story.



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"Be never first, never last and never noticed." - Unknown

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"Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur" - ~ attributed to Petronius (Gaius Petronius Arbiter (ca. 27–66 AD))
Roman courtier during the reign of Nero.

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." - Thomas Paine


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 Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2018 05:53 pm
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Dreaded sled
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 rev matching is a class of its own lol



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A truly educated man never graduates.
94 flatbed 5.0 t5 powered w/ a expo rear ,sideways kickin dd
87 rx7 13b 6port mounted to a holset hx52 turbo , scary 😈
08 tbss cam’d and slammed, wife’s weekend warrior queen
18 Alfa Giulia , wife’s new fancy dd
17 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio . Our date night ride
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 Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2018 09:43 pm
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 And another whole thread could be devoted to this.....

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO SHIFT WHEN YOU CAN HAVE SOMETHING DO IT FOR YOU?

LOL!!!!!!!



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 Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2018 11:53 pm
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 Because there's no other feeling like rowing gears down the road brotha . Just feels to me atleast like you have a lil closer connection to the machine . Makes you more aware to what your driving cause for the trans you are the tcm/Ecu/pcm ,whatever you want to call it . And when you miss a gear you'll be pissed knowing it was cause of you most likely lol and that makes you a better driver . hopefully in my cause 😆



____________________
A truly educated man never graduates.
94 flatbed 5.0 t5 powered w/ a expo rear ,sideways kickin dd
87 rx7 13b 6port mounted to a holset hx52 turbo , scary 😈
08 tbss cam’d and slammed, wife’s weekend warrior queen
18 Alfa Giulia , wife’s new fancy dd
17 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio . Our date night ride
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 Posted: Wed Jul 11th, 2018 12:13 am
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 I had a fairmont with a manual. I remember I could turn cruise control on and wait till I was coasting down hill, slide it between gears and the engine would race like crazy LOL when it tried to catch up. That was pre rev limiter too.



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01 XLT 2WD RC Steppie 3.0 auto Silver
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