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The Future Of Outdoor Adventuring?       #: 2271
 Moderated by: Mike69, MaDMaXX,
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 Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2020 02:57 pm
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12° North Industries
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Is This Really The Future Of Outdoor Adventuring Or

Just Blank-Check Firms Trend-Teasing Us?
 

Without putting on the flame-retardant foil suit particularly useful in automotive forum communities challenging opinions, the one thing we as an outdoor adventure vehicle up-fitting company love most is the common ground surrounding the community of outdoor experiences.  We all share stories around the campsite fires and/or parking lots with our diverse trucks no matter if the platform is a Ford, Nissan, Toyota, GM product, or the Dodge/RAM..  sorry Honda


Read More 



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 Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2020 02:58 pm
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What are your thoughts on the possibilities?

Rivian at this point is claiming a range of 400 miles in the truck platform and 410 miles in the SUV. Of course like our own vehicles, tire sizes, weight of gear, etc may change mileage results to some degree, if nothing else, we may start seeing Solar Panel trees in middle of no where in State or National parks and recreational facilities. Who knows?

Comment here, or comment at the article. Either way you're contributing to the algorithms to help out the sites.



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 Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2020 06:41 pm
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A $75,000 price tag makes it prohibitive to me.  I would spend that money towards a restored diesel powered second gen Bronco, 80's K-5, or even a Ramcharger first.



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 Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2020 10:10 am
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400 miles until you turn the ac on or charge your phone, etc then the milage drops
I agree electric vehicles are coming and they have their place..... but to charge them requires the "grid" or a generator that runs on fuel..... so until that range is more like 1500-2000 miles they are just not practicle for "overlanding" adventures IMO

Now I am following the electric atv, snowmachines, man that would be so great......silently slip through the woods and the torque of an electric motor.... hell yeah!
We just need WAY better batteries then we even have now to make the future brighter for all electric vehicles to venture away from the cities and the "grid"



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 Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2020 01:05 pm
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Ouch, those 2 vehicles are ugly.  :puke  Sorry, gasoline power for me.



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 Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2020 05:34 pm
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Rivian R1T is an incredible truck, been following it for over a year through the trials. The "trunk" design is incredible, a storage compartment that spans the entire width of the truck.

I get e-mails from Rivian because of my early interest.

I have seen video of the 4WD test, 4 separate motors (yes 410 I can say motor in this case) with a total HP rating of 700, and torque unheard of outside of the diesel realm. The 1/8 mile time is better than a corvette.

This thing is a closet beast, price goes with the quality of this vehicle. If I buy an electric vehicle in the time I have left on this earth it will be a Rivian R1T.

It will be offered with 3 battery options, of course the big one will give you the most mileage per charge BUT the middle option gives you the best 1/4 mile time because of the weight.

There are at least 3 electric trucks scheduled to go in to production, they have some serious catching up to do with Rivian. You can pre order one for a $1,000 deposit.



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 Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2020 01:02 am
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Tsquare wrote:
A $75,000 price tag makes it prohibitive to me.  I would spend that money towards a restored diesel powered second gen Bronco, 80's K-5, or even a Ramcharger first.
We could all attack the price tag from several aspects but at the end of the day, A mid level daily grinder BMW 4Series+ is within $100's of dollars of the same range of cost factors. Denali Yukon 420hp 14MPG (city) SUV, NOT even the XL - STARTS at $67,700 Most are over $77k.  You like many of us would by the older vehicles because THAT is what you like, its what you know, there's an emotional attachment to them which could be much like your father liked older muscle/classic cars, or motorcycles. 

In all honesty we're coming into a new era where the next ruling class of youth aren't interested in owning anything because you can rent it, borrow it, etc.. Let's be honest here, there are people who preach on how we don't own anything anyways except in our minds, right?  So through thoughts of AirBnb, Turo (automotive version of Airbnb), Lyft, Uber, there's even private jets and private yachts much like Airbnb theories or Turo. 

The monetary aspect becomes a moot point if you build value around the experiences and use, even if Hertz rentals survives. ;)



410customs wrote:
400 miles until you turn the ac on or charge your phone, etc then the milage drops
I agree electric vehicles are coming and they have their place..... but to charge them requires the "grid" or a generator that runs on fuel..... so until that range is more like 1500-2000 miles they are just not practicle for "overlanding" adventures IMO

Now I am following the electric atv, snowmachines, man that would be so great......silently slip through the woods and the torque of an electric motor.... hell yeah!
We just need WAY better batteries then we even have now to make the future brighter for all electric vehicles to venture away from the cities and the "grid"


EV has come a long way. That being said, I don't think it's all it can be yet, far from it. I think the technology is in the Hybrid really at this point. I get over 585 miles on average in our Yota-RAV4, even in AWD and skid plates. It's not something I want to take off road.  Even Diesel modded vehicles with Extended range tanks don't get 1500-2000 miles and by the time we get that far, I might date myself if I said we could discover Dylithium crystals and move far past that and not need batteries anymore at all.  I have my reservations on Electrics and keep in mind I think they make up only 2.6% market globally. I think they have there place in time, just not yet.  But what I like is companies like Rivian are considering the outdoor market place in their design theory.

And I'd be all over that EV ATV, especially if it was able to switch back and forth to a SeaDoo vehicle too... Ya, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-wqq7l29oI  Your welcome !


Mike69 wrote:
Ouch, those 2 vehicles are ugly.  :puke  Sorry, gasoline power for me.

Unfortunately, I may be speaking for myself just here but change is inevitable and we both probably won't be around long enough to say those things are ugly, take it back and redo it ! before they become that mainstream.


Appreciate all the comments and views too, its nice to see some newer content and conversation on here. Trying to expound on some things, trying to include everyone that wants to be included.



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 Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2020 10:44 am
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well said you guys, interesting topic for sure!
I live off grid, my home and shop is powered by lithium ion batteries, propane generator and solar panels.
I design elevators, so I know the power and torque of the electric motors
In my lifetime we will have electric trucks and the one I'm looking forward to the most the ATV............ we just need better battery tech, what we have is good....but not good enough YET



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 Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2020 10:58 am
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2 words. Mr. Fusion.



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 Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2020 01:47 pm
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410customs wrote:
well said you guys, interesting topic for sure!
I live off grid, my home and shop is powered by lithium ion batteries, propane generator and solar panels.
I design elevators, so I know the power and torque of the electric motors
In my lifetime we will have electric trucks and the one I'm looking forward to the most the ATV............ we just need better battery tech, what we have is good....but not good enough YET

All good things.. We've hired 2 other blog writers and I personally am trying to be more active in articles of interest, so hopefully we'll be able to add some content and improve some algorithms on several sites, (7) in total plus our own. Should be interesting, maybe controversial in ways, always fun.

I particularly am on a similar mindset hence why my search for as close to or over 100 acres of land and because business is now likely going to be stretched between two states, Here in Nevada and back in the Midwest quadrant again. Partial purchase of another business has dictated so and well, I can't do apartment life so I'll likely have to find another parcel of land to build on.

Battery tech has leaped forward in the last decade and maybe another smaller leap recently yet again.  My expectations feel that may become a never ending market of R&D.

.



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 Posted: Sun Nov 15th, 2020 08:21 am
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well heck yeah that is all good news for sure, we are lucky to have you!! Thanks for sharing.



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There is talk about adding a fee to the registration of the electric vehicles, the State say they are losing revenue by not buying gasoline.  LoL !
California made a statement where they expect no gasoline vehicle will be sold after 2035 !



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 Posted: Fri Jan 1st, 2021 11:49 am
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What happened to California breaking off the US and floating into the ocean? This would really help in many ways.

Would be nice for OAN to announce the actual date so all the awake people could move out, anyone still there would blow it off as fake news and could just live on cali island.



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JAMMAN wrote:
What happened to California breaking off the US and floating into the ocean? This would really help in many ways.

Would be nice for OAN to announce the actual date so all the awake people could move out, anyone still there would blow it off as fake news and could just live on cali island.

The rest of the union would miss the taxes generated in Kalifornia

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Ordinary Biker wrote:
JAMMAN wrote:

What happened to California breaking off the US and floating into the ocean? This would really help in many ways.

Would be nice for OAN to announce the actual date so all the awake people could move out, anyone still there would blow it off as fake news and could just live on cali island.

The rest of the union would miss the taxes generated in Kalifornia

Funny, "California" !    My daughter married into a family that all of the first names start with a "K" !

When her first daughter was born I understood the name would probably lean towards the father's side but the second daughter, I mentioned a few names and was told they didn't start with a "K" ! 

I have talked to my wife about moving to Arzonia, open carry too !



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A recent video discussing the current perspective path of Rivian bringing 3 products to light and production, one being a replacement EV version of their current Sprinter van like replacement for and supported financially by Amazon.  Amazon brings a lot of big money to the table that would lean top heavy fiscally for the starter company who is also seeking a backdoor way to being publicly traded.



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Scrambler82 wrote:
Ordinary Biker wrote:
Funny, "California" !    My daughter married into a family that all of the first names start with a "K" !

When her first daughter was born I understood the name would probably lean towards the father's side but the second daughter, I mentioned a few names and was told they didn't start with a "K" ! 

I have talked to my wife about moving to Arzonia, open carry too !


I am not going anywhere.  I am stuck in Colorado, my Dad is here, my son, his wife with my grandson.  Work, I could get most places, but I'm not moving away from the grand kid.  It's ok, I like it here.  Even politically we are pretty middle of the road, some nut jobs on both sides, so I guess that makes us middle.



12° North Industries wrote:


A recent video discussing the current perspective path of Rivian bringing 3 products to light and production, one being a replacement EV version of their current Sprinter van like replacement for and supported financially by Amazon.  Amazon brings a lot of big money to the table that would lean top heavy fiscally for the starter company who is also seeking a backdoor way to being publicly traded.




Money talks, you are right, and Amazon has a lot of it!

I'm not opposed to EV's.  Not ready for electric car myslef, but I have said that my next bike will probably be electric.  I am looking forward to instant torque!

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 Posted: Tue Mar 30th, 2021 10:43 am
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I too am not opposed to Electric Vehicles, the only problem is we need a more efficient supply system to charge them up !
Here in Kalifornia we already have electricity supply problems, rolling blackout, poor supply lines, what going to happen when everyone has an electric vehicle plugged in ?
I see it now, someone needs to go to the hospital and their vehicle didn't charge because of a rolling black out and they start piss!ng about Kalifornis not supporting them, for what ever reason they can think of.   We think it is bad now... just wait !

I like the looks of that truck, I would prefer something that looks more like the Gas Truck of today but I think looks will end up being the last thing to worry about.   Also the cost, costs will go up costs never go down, so where will people be when this truck and others like it cost over $100K and the state you live in say that can't drive your gas vehicle anymore.   I know there will be a transition period but I hope it won't be until I'm long gone from this earth !


Funny thought:   When I was 16, yes a while back, my buddy bought a new truck, an F100, six, three speed on the column, nothing fancy, it was a truck, for the sun of... drum roll please, $3500.00.  Ya, we won't see that price again !



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2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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Scrambler82 wrote:
I too am not opposed to Electric Vehicles, the only problem is we need a more efficient supply system to charge them up !
Here in Kalifornia we already have electricity supply problems, rolling blackout, poor supply lines, what going to happen when everyone has an electric vehicle plugged in ?
I see it now, someone needs to go to the hospital and their vehicle didn't charge because of a rolling black out and they start piss!ng about Kalifornis not supporting them, for what ever reason they can think of.   We think it is bad now... just wait !

I like the looks of that truck, I would prefer something that looks more like the Gas Truck of today but I think looks will end up being the last thing to worry about.   Also the cost, costs will go up costs never go down, so where will people be when this truck and others like it cost over $100K and the state you live in say that can't drive your gas vehicle anymore.   I know there will be a transition period but I hope it won't be until I'm long gone from this earth !

We're not opposed to EV either, it makes sense in a lot of ways but its implementation should be focused.  Before anything infrastructure needs to be in place.  One of the bigger reasons why EV infrastructure does have a decent start in Cali and Florida among other larger warmer climate larger metros.  Is because Unlike current infrastructure, anywhere that's considered city life by most, there's at least 1 if not 3 gas stations on every intersection. That being said; Save the tax payers some taxes.  If the stuff is THAT great of a difference in all things including an economical one, lead by example.

Every State, County, City, school, university, college, and/or affiliated agencies, including Federal Should be completely retrofitted for solar generation with Battery back up and safe'r LED lighting, and appropriate infrastructure for the reasons below.


State

  • All official State vehicles; State transport vehicles, used for inspections, allocated vehicles for all city business, School boards, social workers and/or probationary agents, anything aside from on-site work vehicles used for sewage, electrical work, obvious tractor based vehicles, etc..
  • All public State transportation vehicles
  • All official Utility company that hold contracts with City, County, State agencies; all official company cars should be EV


County

  • All official County Vehicles, transport vehicles


City

  • All TAXI's; would include Uber & Lyft based vehicles including Uber Eats especially on their car allowance programs
  • All Buses, School buses, elderly transportation for both medical & non-medical
  • Local law enforcement; Downtown Presences, Detectives, Special agents, Senior staff with Allocated Car accounts. Traffic enforcement excluded
  • All city Inspectors, city officials utilizing city vehicles for city business.


Lets start there.



Funny thought:   When I was 16, yes a while back, my buddy bought a new truck, an F100, six, three speed on the column, nothing fancy, it was a truck, for the sun of... drum roll please, $3500.00.  Ya, we won't see that price again !

So here's the thing not taken into consideration and no disrespect; you just sound just a little older than me but that's before or just before 1971'ish?

Based upon the F100, I HAD a 1972 F100 Std cab with a long bed and the cool little locking cubby door in the lower forward bed panel and all metal dash with a seriously dwarfed 5.0L, the engine bay looked big enough to hold 2 5.0L engines to be honest. But anyway, lets call it a 1970's F100.  Spending $3500 back then had the same buying power of $22,735.39 in 2019 And that is what people don't understand about inflation.

Your money did more for you prior to 1971, before Nixon finished taking the world off the gold standard and dropping the "petrol dollar" as that same $3500 today would have the buying power of less than $540 and some change back in 1970 now. Which is one reason why things seem or are more expensive now, and your paychecks seem like they take you less farther in the month and that you work 4 times as hard for it.

Last edited on Tue Mar 30th, 2021 11:54 pm by 12° North Industries



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I remember when the talk of an electric vehicle started up, for real that it, there was talk of batteries that would keep a high long term charge with Vehicle Roof Solar Panels... Solar Panels have only recently started to be efficient enough to even consider a built in fully independent charging system  OR looking at this from another point of view, the Controlling Interests are just now letting this technology out of the bag, it is time to make more money from Batteries and Solar Panels.

Japan, about 10 years ago, was releasing information about a new Solar Panel and High Speed Semiconductors, they used Super Conductive Materials to generate and transfer the electricity, the output, not megajoules but high wattage and at 24 to 48 volts, was going to be staggering in comparison to what was out there already... DISAPPEARED... where no one seems to know.   

Too bad we live in such a CONTROLLED environment now compared to years back.

Sorry I now digress to out of topic talk.
Keep these great products coming for the early Rangers, they are being slowly forgotten in the aftermarket world.

Last edited on Wed Mar 31st, 2021 10:54 am by Scrambler82



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Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
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Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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Scrambler82 wrote:
I remember when the talk of an electric vehicle started up, for real that it, there was talk of batteries that would keep a high long term charge with Vehicle Roof Solar Panels... Solar Panels have only recently started to be efficient enough to even consider a built in fully independent charging system  OR looking at this from another point of view, the Controlling Interests are just now letting this technology out of the bag, it is time to make more money from Batteries and Solar Panels.

Japan, about 10 years ago, was releasing information about a new Solar Panel and High Speed Semiconductors, they used Super Conductive Materials to generate and transfer the electricity, the output, not megajoules but high wattage and at 24 to 48 volts, was going to be staggering in comparison to what was out there already... DISAPPEARED... where no one seems to know.   

Too bad we live in such a CONTROLLED environment now compared to years back.

Sorry I now digress to out of topic talk.
Keep these great products coming for the early Rangers, they are being slowly forgotten in the aftermarket world.

Should be an open conversation of another post. for reasons of deeper discussion  ;)



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 Posted: Fri Apr 2nd, 2021 05:10 am
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chris

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Forget all the recharging - hydrogen fuel cells will be along with hydrogen produced from seawater by wind and solar power.
Then the electric vehicles can be refuelled at the gas (literally) station as can modified IC engined vehicles....



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 Posted: Fri Apr 2nd, 2021 08:20 am
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12° North Industries wrote:
Scrambler82 wrote:

I remember when the talk of an electric vehicle started up, for real that it, there was talk of batteries that would keep a high long term charge with Vehicle Roof Solar Panels... Solar Panels have only recently started to be efficient enough to even consider a built in fully independent charging system  OR looking at this from another point of view, the Controlling Interests are just now letting this technology out of the bag, it is time to make more money from Batteries and Solar Panels.

Japan, about 10 years ago, was releasing information about a new Solar Panel and High Speed Semiconductors, they used Super Conductive Materials to generate and transfer the electricity, the output, not megajoules but high wattage and at 24 to 48 volts, was going to be staggering in comparison to what was out there already... DISAPPEARED... where no one seems to know.   

Too bad we live in such a CONTROLLED environment now compared to years back.

Sorry I now digress to out of topic talk.
Keep these great products coming for the early Rangers, they are being slowly forgotten in the aftermarket world.

Should be an open conversation of another post. for reasons of deeper discussion  ;)

Speaking as someone working at a company that invented some of this technology, there is a ton of disinformation out there

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 Posted: Fri Apr 2nd, 2021 08:22 am
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Chris wrote:
Forget all the recharging - hydrogen fuel cells will be along with hydrogen produced from seawater by wind and solar power.
Then the electric vehicles can be refuelled at the gas (literally) station as can modified IC engined vehicles....

Hydrogen fuel cells are WAY too expensive now.  Take decades of research to improve.  And handling the hydrogen is way trickier than electricity.  And electricity doesn't require a massive brand new very expensive infrastructure be built

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 Posted: Mon Apr 5th, 2021 01:26 am
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Chris wrote:
Forget all the recharging - hydrogen fuel cells will be along with hydrogen produced from seawater by wind and solar power.
Then the electric vehicles can be refuelled at the gas (literally) station as can modified IC engined vehicles....


Ordinary Biker wrote:
Chris wrote:

Forget all the recharging - hydrogen fuel cells will be along with hydrogen produced from seawater by wind and solar power.
Then the electric vehicles can be refuelled at the gas (literally) station as can modified IC engined vehicles....

Hydrogen fuel cells are WAY too expensive now.  Take decades of research to improve.  And handling the hydrogen is way trickier than electricity.  And electricity doesn't require a massive brand new very expensive infrastructure be built

Here's going to be the uphill lead in this.. 

  • As of today there are only Fuel stations as infrastructure are only in California it seems, nothing in Florida, nothing in Texas [shocker], Detroit? nope!   https://cafcp.org/stationmap 
  • Currently low demand, however in its defense, not a known tech to many
  • Small volume sales, equals low production, then the median average is about $80,000
  • The Average American family has converted mentally the ideal family vehicle is a crew cab F150 as the new Station Wagon which is good because Hydrogen tanks are pretty large, we might see some larger garages in new homes
  • Present cost per 1Lb of Hydrogen is $14 in the US (an FCEV can drive 28 miles on 1lb of hydrogen)

leading to my next point of:

  • Hydrogen cars seem to be hovering very close to a range of 300 miles.
Am I the only one bothered by the overly stated point now that seems like no matter WHAT the fuel/power source is the range seems to have a hard time breaking that 300-325 mile range unless its a hybrid which I've seen as much as 480-540 miles.

- Gas / [Petrol for Chris]
- Electric
- Hydrogen
- Natural gas

All 290-380 miles of range with all the tech, tuning, fuel efficiency, lighter weight materials, better gearing, etc.. and we cant break through to the 480-600 miles for a tank of gas?  I'm seeing a pattern develop here, pass me the box of foil.


And not all the hydrogen cars are unattractive but - Toyota Mirai should open up the floor for expectations.


Not exactly making my undershorts tight here.
.



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