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Brake System Flush Question #: 2362

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Posted: Fri Apr 23rd, 2021 11:42 am

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mhoward
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I am planning/preparing to perform a Mustang rear disc brake swap on my 2003 Ranger over the Memorial Day weekend. In addition, I am replacing soft lines, rotors and calipers on the front as well. I have all the parts and I'm just waiting for the long weekend to "Git 'er Done". As part of this project, I want to completely flush the system of the old, dark fluid and fill it with fresh clean DOT 4 or DOT 5.1 juice.

Since everything is going to be open for quite a while when I am replacing lines, calipers, etc., I was thinking that I would just DRAIN the system, then pour new fluid in until it runs clear as I don't want the old dirty fluid flowing through my new calipers. Then, when I get the new parts all installed and connected, I would just fill and bleed the system in the normal manner.

I was discussing my plans with a fellow gear head at work and he said that was a bad idea. He said that would introduce air into the system (duh!) and I would never get it properly bled and free of air. Now, he is a GM guy, and maybe that is true on GM stuff, but why would I not be able to fully bleed the air out? I would expect there to be a ton of air in the system when I drain it dry, but I fail to understand why I couldn't bleed the system to my satisfaction. Am I missing something?

Just FYI: I was a professional auto mechanic for many years, back in the day, with dozens of full brake jobs under my belt, so I'm not new at this. :-)

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Posted: Fri Apr 23rd, 2021 12:55 pm

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JAMMAN

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I drain them every time I can. You can vacuum from the bleeder, pressurize the master cylinder (slightly). Back when master cylinders were steel reservoir pressure worked the best.

Last time I did it and I'm facing this soon again, I put a small rubber hose over the bleeder and cracked it slightly. Then I started the truck and slowly pumped the brakes looking at the plastic coke bottle watching the brown crap and floaties come from the line.

Takes longer this way, but if slightly cracked it has to build a little pressure to squirt. I think this carries the bubbles better plus when you let off it only pulls a little back from the line and a lot from the master cylinder. Put a little brake fluid in the bottle first and make sure the tube is under the fluid, that way there is no chance of sucking a bubble back in. Fill reservoir frequently duh.

If the bleeder screw is real loose in the hole to the point there is no partial open, pull it out and put some PTFE tape on it so it don't suck air thru the threads. On a Ranger, bleed right rear first, left rear, right front and left front in that order.

I do this unless I'm in a hurry then I get someone for the "pump it up. Now hold it" method which requires 2 people.

I had one of those check valve bottles but it failed the first time I used it. Aside from Vacuum bleeding the method described above works the best. My brakes are always solid after doing it this way.

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Posted: Fri Apr 23rd, 2021 02:22 pm

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mhoward
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Jim, most of the system will be wide open during the rear disc conversion and front line and caliper replacement. I guess what I am concerned with is that I was told that if the system is drained empty, there is no way to properly bleed it. I truly believe it will be a PITA with all that air, but should be doable. I am thinking of buying this: HarborFreight #92924, #61912 Brake Fluid Bleeder . That should make things a little easier, I would think. Anyone here ever used one of these from HF?

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Posted: Fri Apr 23rd, 2021 06:38 pm

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my 2 cents:

DOT 3/4/5.1 is a air moisture sponge. Anytime I have an open brake line for any length of time over 10 minutes I will put a plastic baggie over it and rubber-band it tight as I can. I try to replace fluid every two to three years.

I am starting a GM disc rebuild. I have rusty looking fluid that is at least 8 years old. The master cylinder is covered with rust inside and out. I am pulling it tomorrow and running an electrolysis de-rust process. While that is running I plan on rebuilding the brake booster. I hope to purge the existing fluid out the closest caliper. I will be rebuilding all 4 calipers with new seals and red paint. I hope to have this completed over the next two weeks.

The proportioning valve will cause problems with air pockets if you do a full system drain. I have a similar system to the Harbor Freight bleeder. Mine has the dial to see how much pressure you have on the system. Another option is a power brake bleeder. Check your O'Reily's or Advance Auto to see if they have that on their rental program (deposit and after return the deposit is refunded). The power bleeders do a better job clearing bubbles in the line and proportioning valve.

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Posted: Fri Apr 23rd, 2021 06:57 pm

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mhoward
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I agree, the DOT 3/4/5.1 *IS* a sponge for sure. The DOT 5 (not to be confused with DOT 5.1) is silicone-based, so it isn't hygroscopic. However, it isn't compatible with the old DOT 3 or 4, meaning I could have serious issues if I don't get ALL of the old fluid out of the system. That said, that rules out the DOT 5 for me, so probably use the DOT 4 to get a better boiling point and remain compatible with the juice that's been in the brake system for 18 years.

So you think the Harbor Freight pneumatic bleeder is a decent tool? I didn't know O'Reilly/AutoZone tool rentals included things like that. Will check if I have issues.

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Posted: Fri Apr 23rd, 2021 10:35 pm

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Definitely worth doing, out with the old fluid, in with the new. I've had my truck done, and I do my bikes myself regularly. As for the Harbor Freight, I've never bought that one, and all I can really say is that it just can be hit or miss with their stuff. If it was a power tool I'd say no, but I think it's a fair chance that it's ok.

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Posted: Fri Apr 23rd, 2021 11:28 pm

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Tsquare
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Harbor Freight = cheap chineasium. I run DOT 5 in my Sportster because that is what it came with. The E-Glide came with DOT 4? I have to flush the Sporty yearly as it brakes down easily with heat. I use DOT 4 synthetic in everything else as it seems to resist moisture better than anything else I have tried.

The biggest plus for DOT 5 is that it isn't a paint remover.

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Posted: Sat Apr 24th, 2021 08:10 am

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mhoward
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@OB: I've purchased a fair amount of tools from Harbor Freight and for the most part, I've had pretty good luck with them. I take care of my tools and try to not push them past their performance expectancy. On the few occasions I've had a failure, HB was always ready with either a replacement or a refund. That said, I'm pretty sure I will buy that bleeder tool.

@Tony: I wasn't aware there was a synthetic version of DOT 4. I will look into that!

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