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Wilson 1000 CB antenna       #: 167
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 Posted: Mon Nov 13th, 2017 09:16 am
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john112deere
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Bear with me for a longish post; short version is my mag-mount W1000 is now pegging the SWR meter on all channels, and I'm looking for diagnostic advice.

I set this radio up as a "temporary" installation, but after five years and 70k miles I guess I should probably admit it's not likely to change any...
Uniden 68 radio, barefoot/stock outta the box.  Mag-mount Wilson 1000 with a short load whip on the roof, cable routed as best I could to avoid loops.  Had the SWRs somewhere reasonable when I first installed it.  I forget now just what they were, but under 2 on all channels.
I often unscrew the whip and leave it on the dash (so I can get into the parking garage at work, the carwash, etc.) and sometimes leave it there for months at a time, as I don't actually use the radio much.  This is probably rough on the coil, bouncing around on dirt roads and such.
Put a fiberglass topper on the truck over the summer, and figured I should check my SWRs again.  Pegged the meter on every channel.

I'm definitely not an electrical engineer- antennas confuse me.  But I did a little quick research online and found some simple checks- continuity from center-to-center, and outer-to-outer on the coax from the radio end to the mag-mount base; open between the center and outer of the coax.  Continuity from center to outer at the base of the antenna coil (which surprised me, but my research suggests is correct).
A friend suggested laying some sheetmetal over the cap to make sure it wasn't a ground-plane issue; still pegged the meter.

I'm leaning toward a vibration-related failure in the antenna coil...anybody got any ideas before I pry the thing open for a look-see? (I'm not entirely sure it'll ever go back together, so I'd like to be fairly certain that's where the issue is before I start.)

No telling, I don't suppose...but I don't believe I've keyed the mic since this issue developed (beyond for the meter) so I think the radio should be OK.

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 Posted: Mon Nov 13th, 2017 10:28 am
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Wow SWR a term I had not heard for years.

Do you or one of your buddies have an antenna you can hook up just to verify? Last CB I used was late 70's definitely had some fun. Had one in my 75 astre.

Has to be radio or antenna that's why it would be a good idea to get a known good one and hook it in.

If you knew how many ohms the antenna was when it was new could be as easy as a resistance check.

Maybe Buggman would know something? He dabbles in electronics.



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 Posted: Mon Nov 13th, 2017 01:22 pm
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A resistance test will tell you what is going on. If the cable has ever been kinked that could cause problems as well.

I have one of the Mag-mount Wilson 1000's. I had a broken solder joint in the base. I cut it open with a dremel and used epoxy to seal it back up.

While you have it open you can also shorten your coax to the correct length.



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 Posted: Mon Nov 13th, 2017 02:35 pm
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I always thought that changing the length of the coax screwed up the standing wave ratio.



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 Posted: Mon Nov 13th, 2017 03:17 pm
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On a 4 watt system it will improve the gain. Most "canned" antenna/coax combo's come with 18' cables and are tuned at the factory with the antenna stretched the maximum distance from the transmitter. On a vehicle there are other factors that will affect the signal to wave ratio. Some of those factors are location of the antenna; the further away from the transmitter usually the better, being on an optical plane higher than any metal is better, other electronics or electrical fields.  
John112deere is running his antennae on his roof. That is the good location but a 102" steel whip mounted on the top of the bed frame rail at the tailgate would be optimal.  Regardless where it is located it needs to be tuned for the lowest SWR reading possible on CH1 and CH40. 
The Wilson 1000 has a great system in that there are 2 allen screws holding the steel whip in the mount making it an easy system to tune.  The screws can be loosened and the antenna adjusted out to its max length. Record your SWR numbers on ch1 and ch40. Loosen and adjust the antenna 1/4" down into the mount and record you numbers again. Keep doing this until you get the lowest numbers on your SWR meter. If it has been dropping and you bottom out the antenna mast in the mount then it is time to start trimming it. You have about an inch of adjustment room.  
BTW: I am a RF field engineer

Last edited on Mon Nov 13th, 2017 03:20 pm by Tsquare



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 Posted: Mon Nov 13th, 2017 03:30 pm
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"BTW: I am a RF field engineer"

I would have never guessed that based on the content of your post! LOL  JK

I owned a few CBs in the mid to late 1970s.  Some friends and I would hang out at the local radio shop, so I learned a little bit.  Been too many years ago now.  The airwaves got so crowded, it got to where it wasn't fun anymore.  You have probably forgotten more than I ever knew about that stuff. :)



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 Posted: Mon Nov 13th, 2017 09:44 pm
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Tsquare wrote: A resistance test will tell you what is going on. If the cable has ever been kinked that could cause problems as well.

I have one of the Mag-mount Wilson 1000's. I had a broken solder joint in the base. I cut it open with a dremel and used epoxy to seal it back up.

While you have it open you can also shorten your coax to the correct length.
I did, or tried to do, the resistance tests....but they all passed.  Unless I did 'em wrong?
I'm suspecting its a broken solder in the base- that seems a common problem with these antennas, and this one is probably about 10 years old.

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 Posted: Mon Nov 13th, 2017 09:48 pm
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john112deere
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Tsquare wrote: The Wilson 1000 has a great system in that there are 2 allen screws holding the steel whip in the mount making it an easy system to tune.  The screws can be loosened and the antenna adjusted out to its max length. Record your SWR numbers on ch1 and ch40. Loosen and adjust the antenna 1/4" down into the mount and record you numbers again. Keep doing this until you get the lowest numbers on your SWR meter. If it has been dropping and you bottom out the antenna mast in the mount then it is time to start trimming it. You have about an inch of adjustment room.  
BTW: I am a RF field engineer
This is how I'd tuned it originally- I think I was somewhere around 1.5 on both 1 and 40.
Now I'm trying to figure out what's changed and causing it to be so high.

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 Posted: Mon Nov 13th, 2017 10:05 pm
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john112deere wrote: Tsquare wrote: The Wilson 1000 has a great system in that there are 2 allen screws holding the steel whip in the mount making it an easy system to tune.  The screws can be loosened and the antenna adjusted out to its max length. Record your SWR numbers on ch1 and ch40. Loosen and adjust the antenna 1/4" down into the mount and record you numbers again. Keep doing this until you get the lowest numbers on your SWR meter. If it has been dropping and you bottom out the antenna mast in the mount then it is time to start trimming it. You have about an inch of adjustment room.  
BTW: I am a RF field engineer
This is how I'd tuned it originally- I think I was somewhere around 1.5 on both 1 and 40.
Now I'm trying to figure out what's changed and causing it to be so high.
Anything 1-1.5 is golden. The soldering where the coax is attached to the antenna is minimal. It is a high fail point. 
If that is where the problem is it is a good idea to shorten your coax to eliminate any extra wire. This will increase your gain. When you resolder (if that is the problem) you will need to re-run your SWR antenna tuning as that affects the resistance as well. Shortening the cable does the same but decreases some line loss.  



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 Posted: Mon Nov 13th, 2017 10:34 pm
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Tsquare wrote: john112deere wrote: Tsquare wrote: The Wilson 1000 has a great system in that there are 2 allen screws holding the steel whip in the mount making it an easy system to tune.  The screws can be loosened and the antenna adjusted out to its max length. Record your SWR numbers on ch1 and ch40. Loosen and adjust the antenna 1/4" down into the mount and record you numbers again. Keep doing this until you get the lowest numbers on your SWR meter. If it has been dropping and you bottom out the antenna mast in the mount then it is time to start trimming it. You have about an inch of adjustment room.  
BTW: I am a RF field engineer
This is how I'd tuned it originally- I think I was somewhere around 1.5 on both 1 and 40.
Now I'm trying to figure out what's changed and causing it to be so high.
Anything 1-1.5 is golden. The soldering where the coax is attached to the antenna is minimal. It is a high fail point. 
If that is where the problem is it is a good idea to shorten your coax to eliminate any extra wire. This will increase your gain. When you resolder (if that is the problem) you will need to re-run your SWR antenna tuning as that affects the resistance as well. Shortening the cable does the same but decreases some line loss. 

I was just going to mention at a point Ive had to take some Wilson 1000 and Lil Wil's and take the antenna mast out and take it to a grinding wheel a couple to few times to get it in that 1-1.5 SWR



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 Posted: Tue Dec 26th, 2017 11:51 pm
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First, any antenna and / or coax that has been on the road for 70K Miles should be replaced.

The Wilson 1000 is a good antenna BUT there is no way to check for a shorted condition in the antenna/coax package because it is actually already in a shorted condition and will read high resistance on a meter.

Also, CB Antennas have come a long way in the last 10 years so buy a new antenna, with coax if you have to but coax breaks down and has higher losses as it gets old AND a stock CB only has 4 watts, maybe boosted some, but not much, s any loos in the coax/antenna will shorten the transmitting distance you think you want !

If I were to do an install, I would only use enough Coax to get from the back of the CB to the antenna without any kinks.

There is a theory about using 18' of coax, if you use the 18'... do not coil the extra coax, try to leave slack in the line as you run the coax leaving nothing at the end but hook up length.
Get a good frame ground for the CB Chassis and the Antenna Mount.

Bumper mounts and body mounts are not good conductors for electricity and radio signals so an extra\a wire will help for grounding.
For Mobile applications RG8X Coax is the best choice.

Also, to test Coax for a shorted condition, you need to disconnect both ends, check one connector center to outer shield, check the other connector just in case !  
Then check center to center of both ends and shield to shield also.


Although you could check for resistance of the length of coax there is no need to, the usual Coax used in a CB Application is set at 50 ohms resistance, if the coax states it is RG8X, RG58U, or RG8U-( more Home use) then you can accept the fact that it is 50 ohm per foot.  
If by some chance... you are running a long length of coax, then consider using a larger diameter coax, i.e. RG58U and RG*x are approximately 0.250", while RG8 is approximately 0.500" and has less loss meaning it will get more of the radio signal to the antenna.

Always check the SWR (Standing Wave Ratio) in your system, trying to get to the lowest number you can, i.e. 1.0 - 1.2 !
The best performance is achieved with an SWR of 1.5 or lower  but as close to 1.1 is the best .  At 1.5 or higher, up to 2.0, the CB will operate BUT at a lower power output and a high SWR will cause the CB to heat up some, reducing life of the radio.


OK already said to much... grounding, a low SWR and a good antenna and coax, is what makes for a good CB install.  
Antennas that come with their own coax attached may or may not be the best solution but it is easier to install.  

Last edited on Wed Dec 27th, 2017 12:09 pm by Scrambler82



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JAMMAN wrote: Wow SWR a term I had not heard for years.Last CB I used was late 70's definitely had some fun. Had one in my 75 astre.

WOW Jim I didn't think anyone would admit to owning one of those cars. :q I had one on my 68 Mustang GT in the late 70's/early 80's.





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 Posted: Sat Jan 6th, 2018 11:06 am
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The Coupes were great drag cars, good weight transfer.

I owned a '68 Coupe, replaced the 302 with a 351 C, Crane's Cam, Holly, the usual stuff ! Great power !

Mounted my 5' Fire Stik on the trunk with a ball mount... !

Understm8ed,
I too found the 1000 and the LilWil to need just a little trimming, a lot of the installs I did for other people were perfect out of the box. Great Antenna Company for the everyday mobile antenna setups !
Only problem I found was too much coax... most of the time, easy to throw under the seat or in the trunk but extra coax means to me, just an easier way to match up the antenna.



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 Posted: Mon Jan 15th, 2018 06:41 pm
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After getting distracted for a while...today I decided to try opening up the coil base on the W1000 and see if I could find anything wrong.

I couldn't but the plastic cover didn't survive the experience. (As a friend pointed out, I still have exactly the same number- zero- of working CB antennas...so it's no great loss.)


Depending on how lazy and or cheap I'm feeling...I'll either stick a Lil'Wil I've got kicking around on the truck and move on with life...or order a new CB for the car, and a fender-mount FG antenna kit.

(I'll buy parts to install a 3' FG on the Ranger fender, although there's a slim chance, if the parts line up and look right, that'll actually end up on the hatch of my Mazda 3, and the Lil'Wil will still end up on the Ranger.


The Ranger is semi-retired from road trips these days, anyway- not that I wouldn't drive it California...but it's driveway-buddy has 110k fewer miles and burns half as much gas.

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 Posted: Mon Jan 15th, 2018 08:29 pm
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john112deere,
How did this turn out ?

Last edited on Mon Jan 15th, 2018 08:30 pm by Scrambler82



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 Posted: Mon Jan 15th, 2018 09:02 pm
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In the post right above ya, Scrambler...

I got distracted, and did nothing until today. When I tried to disassemble my W1000. I don't think it'll be going back together...

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 Posted: Tue Jan 16th, 2018 11:56 am
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OK, so you didn't get inside...  !?!
I smashed a 2000 and 5000 just trying to get inside... not mine, a friend with an electronics store was doing a test, got the antennas free and I never got to see the 1000 measurements.
The words in the ads say, "it has the thickest coil wire for the frequency and antenna price" !  never having seen one I was curious if the ads were true.
I for one like the Wilson Products, their fiberglass Antennas are some of the commercial CD Antennas in the Market.  My plan for the resurrected Ranger CB, a Ranger CB, is either a 2000 or 5000 short mast.  The 5000 having better power handing, (200 watts) !

Anyway, FAVOR, pls, just wondered if you fin a piece of the Wound Coil Wire, would you measure it for OD, AND also, if possible and if you have one, can you use a Micrometer or Caliper.
If you can't do it for any reason no problem, thanks for anything you can give me for info.

Last edited on Tue Jan 16th, 2018 12:04 pm by Scrambler82



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Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
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Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Tue Jan 16th, 2018 07:14 pm
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I got inside...but the cover didn't survive the experience, and I couldn't find anything wrong with it.

I don't have good measurement tools here, but if I remember to bring the coil into work tomorrow I'll take some measurements for ya.

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john112deere,
Thanks but you dont have to take it to work, I appreciate the offer but just something I was thinking about...  !
I think it is a Proprietary Think, I have never seen in one but would have thought it would be sealed up very well.
Was re-reading your first post, you said you take the whip off and sometimes leave it off, maybe you just need to clean up the end of the Mast and the connecting point on the coil to make it work better.
So where are you going with this, get a Wilson 5K, check the SWR and see how you talk on it.
Just joking, dont forget to post up what you are doing to get to an end point... a 1 to 1 SWR !
Have you looked at any of the other CB Antennas out on the market ?Some look great but are too tall, some, if they perform as advertised, should be just like talking on a Cell.  Wait a minute is that good ?



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2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Tue Jan 16th, 2018 10:36 pm
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Just as an FYI if you need to get a new antenna. I am running a Firestick Firefly on a solid mount. The beauty of it is the turn-screw tunable tip for setting SWR.



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Tsquare wrote: Just as an FYI if you need to get a new antenna. I am running a Firestick Firefly on a solid mount. The beauty of it is the turn-screw tunable tip for setting SWR.
I have never had an antenna with the adjusting screw in the top, sounds good, how did it match up ?
Although the Fire Fly is something I have had in the back of my head for a while, I am thinking the Wilson 5K Unit or maybe even their Trucker Series, BUT the coax being connected to the base unit bothers me but it is something I will live with.
What Coax do you use ?I use Time Microwave Coax and Belden both great coaxial cable.The Times Cable, LMR240, is 50 ohm, low loss, great velocity factor,  and is only .240" in OD, just the right size and then there is the LMR300, a little bigger but still serviceable.  I tried RG8, the .5" stuff for a CB setup, thinking ai would get the most power to the antenna... didn't matter, the smaller RG8X, worked just as well and was more flexible.
OK... getting to much info for a CB System but I do like to install them right !
Remember, before checking the SWR, the system needs to be completely together, and the vehicle needs to be in the open.  No power wire, no metal building in the area, doors closed, and above all... make sure there is a good ground from the antenna mount to a bare spot on the Frame of the vehicle.
Grounding is important so get good ground for the antenna mount and the CB Chassis.
Sorry for getting carried away, I love this stuff and it is going away, too bad, our loss !
Ltr



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Wed Jan 17th, 2018 01:57 pm
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Tsquare
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The Firefly was one of the easiest antennas I have tuned. I picked up a PL-259 connector and some RG-8X to make my cable. The RG-8X has a stranded center wire and thicker insulation. Also if your coax has the "A U" in its description it is solid core - a kink in it will change the properties of the cable.



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Tony
NE ATL
'04 XLT regular cab 3.slo stepside
Semi retirement
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 Posted: Wed Jan 17th, 2018 05:09 pm
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Scrambler82
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Tsquare wrote: The Firefly was one of the easiest antennas I have tuned. I picked up a PL-259 connector and some RG-8X to make my cable. The RG-8X has a stranded center wire and thicker insulation. Also if your coax has the "A U" in its description it is solid core - a kink in it will change the properties of the cable.

IF I were to use a Fiberglass Antenna I think I would try the Firefly or the 3 ft Wilson.  
Usually a "U" mean stranded, the "A" I haven't seen for a while !Although, RG8X is stranded, while RG8U is too but 9913 (similar to RG8) is solid center conductor, with an air core, great for Base Units but not mobile.
Either way a Solid Center Conductor is better but it has problems with bends and kinked center conductor, high resistance and high SWR.  So in a mobile application a stranded center will be better overall.
I always had a roll of Belden RG8X around for installs, best of both worlds, low loss, stranded center, extra insulation... good stuff, the Time Microwave LMR240 is similar and may have a better low loss factor and a better velocity factor.  I have switch over to the LMR Coax for installs of my own, either the 240 or the 300.
All in all, taking your time to setup your CB system, using the best antenna you can afford and the best coax will end in a great talking system.  Radio Shack always sold CB Parts, but the items are not quality part, the coax, although made by Belden has almost no braided shield and the foam is less of an insulator than you should have AND the electronics equipment is lower quality, less components, than name brands.Stick to good quality pieces and the system will work the best !
If you do another install look for an HRO Radio Store, HAMs call it the Candy Store, at least get the coax and connectors there.  Some of them will do the connector install for you if you want.
Point of interest,  A PL259 Connector, is not a 50 Ohm Connector and really should not be used on a 50 Ohm System.  they are not far off but they can throw off the SWR some.   The correct connectors would be either a BNC Type or an "N" Connector, but you need something to mate with your CB too.  

Sorry I get carried away on this stuff.Hope it it's not overload !

Last edited on Wed Jan 17th, 2018 05:16 pm by Scrambler82



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Wed Jan 24th, 2018 07:14 pm
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john112deere
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Scrambler82 wrote: Anyway, FAVOR, pls, just wondered if you fin a piece of the Wound Coil Wire, would you measure it for OD, AND also, if possible and if you have one, can you use a Micrometer or Caliper.
If you can't do it for any reason no problem, thanks for anything you can give me for info.
Haven't managed to find time to dig up a caliper or mic, but I did snap a picture with a 10-scale (each tick a tenth of an inch) today.

Attachment: IMG_2025.jpg (Downloaded 10 times)

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 Posted: Wed Jan 24th, 2018 11:15 pm
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Thanks, appreciate your time.
Hard to determine a measurement, will probably have to find a damaged unit and do the same thing.

Ltr



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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