Front end parts replacement - Suspension Tech - Tech Section

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JAMMAN

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Slightly negative but fairly close to zero, I'll ask if that is within their scope. There is a local muffler shop believe it or not that has an alignment setup that looks newer and more electronic than the honda dealership I take my wife's CRV to. I had them align my ram 4wd and it was freaking perfect probably the only time in history I was ever completely satisfied with an alignment.

410 that mevotech looks great you wouldn't have to deal with boot pressing it in. The delco looks like for a top? I bought arms was told the tops were not replaceable. Being a machinist replaceable is in the eye of the beholder LOL do you replace them in stock arms?

I have been for the past 2 years buying front end parts including bearings exclusively from Detroit Axle the quality of machining is excellent and the price is just over china's best. Even if it is from china they seem to have excellent quality control ethics. So far 3 complete front end kits and no problems everything fit.

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Posted: Tue May 8th, 2018 10:38 pm

27^th Post

JAMMAN

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Got it ALMOST together tonight, going to be tomorrow evening I can put the last few screws in then off thursday to the alignment place.

I figured out the hardest part.... putting the screws in the UCA, well lining the holes up seemed to be a trick but I got it. Putting the drivers side camber adjusters in was way easier than taking it out, the original had the lobe welded to the screw head, the new assembly was a 6 piece.

Anyhow heres the pics:

And then I read the package. Oh well.

This was the hardest part, took the longest. If anyone has a "trick" let me know for the next one. The pivots on the arm were larger than the slot they went in, hammer was necessary:

Beginning to look like a front end:

I am crazy anti seize compound man

_{The end.}

_{Didn't paint the actual caliper, probably going to buy shiny rebuilt ones the minute they give me a problem. I'll paint those. Probably dark green I'm a dark green person if you haven't caught on by now.}

_{This concludes todays episode, tune in tomorrow!}

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Posted: Wed May 9th, 2018 09:59 pm

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JAMMAN

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DONE, taking it in tomorrow morning for the alignment.

Due to the condition of the 2 front tires I swapped with the donor expo. The expo tires were not perfect but at least worn evenly.

Needs a bath now.

Took a picture of the rear disks on the expo while switching tires. Rusty but still in good shape. Everything is there. This is the 4.10 LSD I'm going to put in something... A little blasting and a couple rotors.

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Posted: Thu May 10th, 2018 09:11 am

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Idahome

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The detroit axle bearings are the ones I was talking about, They were like $45 each on Amazon. That was a waste of $90 per truck.
I installed about 8 sets of those one summer, mostly on friends/customer rigs but also two sets on our own explorers. The next summer we replaced most of those again and I ate the cost of install....

Upper BJ's come in control arms. You can but the control arms that allow replacement of the BJ separate. The cost of the uppers has come way down, so usually I just replace the drivers upper and pass two piece outer with control arms with good quality ones (AC delco)

The lower BJ handles the vehicle weight and is under the most stress so its good that TTX, Proforge, Ac delco and MAS make HD replacements

I align my trucks to 0 camber and 1/16" - toe per side for a total of 1/8"-
We run larger tires here and set at 0 with a half tank of fuel and driver in the seat works perfectly every time.
The only reason to do 1/8" negative toe is because these are mainly RWD vehicles and when you hit the fuel feed the tires will return to 0

With larger tires everything is exaggerated, so 0 and 1/8" works well for me for many many miles and many years now

BEFORE you go in for alignment check your tire pressures and adjust your ride height side to side / front to back with your torsion spring bolts..

I do alignments in house with an angle gauge for camber and a string for toe...works awesome and saves $$$$

The drivers upper will go in the slots if you put front and back in evenly and at the same time...even then the bushings require slight persuasion from the BFH

Great time to clean/service/replace your caliper slide pins
Also consider some upgraded sway bar links, there is only one type I will run anymore the new upgraded Moog units

Nice work!

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Posted: Thu May 10th, 2018 12:55 pm

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JAMMAN

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So what happened to the Detroit axle balls? What do you use your trucks for? Extreme 4wd? I put about a year and a half on my dodge before I sold it and everything was OK, my buddies Taco still works fine and he is much rougher on his than I am mine.

At this point anything was better than what I had.

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Posted: Thu May 10th, 2018 04:32 pm

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Idahome

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I hear ya and I am not trying to burst your bubble. Some of the bearings worked out but many they would develop a front end howl, typical of Gen II explorers especially AWD, the front end is always engaged and they eat wheel bearings.

Make sure you get it torqued properly and then see how it does. I had hope that we could do both bearings for under $100, then later I had to spend more $$$ to do it right w timken, spicer or motorcraft

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Posted: Thu May 10th, 2018 10:02 pm

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JAMMAN

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I'm about ready to do my own alignment like you do, I'm convinced I could get it closer than they did. Same place that did a superior job on my dodge claims they had the camber right on the machine and it is clearly between 1.5 and 2 degrees each tire. I was so disgusted, the "manager" has 2 more days there saturday is his last day and he did the alignment. I'm going to wait till monday and see if the new guy is any brighter if not I'll have to go elsewhere.

I am so disappointed all that work and they screw up the alignment. I didn't want the same guy to do it again so I didn't leave it.

"It was fighting me the whole time, took me 4 hours and the thing just wouldn't move"

what a putz I even left the bolts loose for him and told him. Brand new crap and he couldn't get it to move. I got it to move just fine but left the adjustments straight up neutral.

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Posted: Fri May 11th, 2018 09:13 am

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Idahome

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Yep.
Thats why we try to do everything in house, tired of throwing $$$$ away at dishonest or know nothing shops.
25 years ago I decided my money was better spent on tools and knowledge so I could DIY

Now with the jackstand, string and angle gauge alignment its super easy on say my F350 and even the TTB Bronco II. But the FJ cruiser and the IFS explorer's do take a bit more doing. It really helps if the original alignment is kept in the upper control arms and the vehicle is already close. Then its just a slight camber adjustment and then toe. Most of the times the camber can be brought back to 0 degrees with just the torsion bolts and the tie rods turned for proper toe.
Align the rzr, no problem. solid axle full size truck, no problem. The ttb setup no problem. IFS ranger/Explorer can take all day.
The best trick I know is to measure FIRST then make the corrections...trying to make corrections with the truck on jack stands or tires is near impossible. You must have the truck sitting on all 4's, at ride height, suspension settled, tires adjusted, wheel straight then measure how many degrees of camber correction and how much toe adjustment needed. Jack it up, make adjustments, drop it down, jump on the front bumper 50 times...check again... the final toe adjustment can be made with truck on ground.

This way it usually takes longer to get the jack stands and string out then it does to make the actual adjustments

Last edited on Fri May 11th, 2018 09:20 am by 410customs

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Posted: Fri May 11th, 2018 12:01 pm

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JAMMAN

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Well it's back up there. I went at 10:00 break and there was a new guy (Dirty Zach). I asked him where the guy from yesterday was he says:

"Well I talked to him late yesterday and he said he'd see me in the morning. I came in early and the lights were on, he was packing up his tool box"

So I brought dirty Zach outside and showed him the truck. He immediately said "yeah that don't look right"

So he had his side kick Bo-Dean (for real) take me back to the shop and he is going to put it back on the rack and try it himself. He says he has plenty of experience with the machine he claims, I asked him if he had used it before and he said "oh yeah all the time".

I guess I was just a day early for my alignment.

The thing was visibly at least 1.5 to 2 degrees negative camber. Guys at the shop were poking at me "hey Jim, whens your next drift event"

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Posted: Fri May 11th, 2018 02:06 pm

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"Redneck" experience for the win

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Posted: Fri May 11th, 2018 03:14 pm

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JAMMAN

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This is turning into a nightmare. Dirty Zach just called me and said he was able to get the driver side to come in but the passenger was still like a degree and he has the adjustments all the way out.

I mentioned taking the lower inward and he said you can't do that because of the torsion bar.

Is this true or another line of BS? It has adjustments on it why can't it be adjusted?

Is it by chance because I replaced the 2 piece with a one piece?

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Posted: Fri May 11th, 2018 09:14 pm

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JAMMAN

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Anyhow IT IS FINISHED.

I went up there today at 5, dirty Zach still had it on the rack. I kind of felt sorry for him because Bo-dean up and quit on him today! He was the only one there.

Camber wasn't perfect but much closer, I had to help him set toe by sitting in the truck with my foot on the brakes and holding the wheel. He didn't have a wheel lock to keep it from moving while adjusting.

So I have my truck, it is sufficient but not spectacular, and when I buy new tires an alignment comes with it. Any place but the one I was at what a nightmare.

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Posted: Sat May 12th, 2018 10:22 am

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Idahome

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Yes you must replace passenger side with the two piece!! If you install the one piece its a real PITA because you have to measure how far out it is, then order the correction shimsn (eccentric bolts), then install the upper eccentric bolts (shims) and start over again = $300 alignment LOL

I hate the one piece passenger side upper!! PITA!!!!!!!!!!!

Poor shop lol
Find another alignment place, its a Ranger they should have had one look at it and said, we are going to need shims for pass side since it has the one piece upper and the shims we need are "number of degrees" and they can be here this afternoon. Shims are $60 and install is $150, then we can do alignment. At which point you say okay and go get he shims yourself, install yourself, then bring back for alignment......... OR go to the junk yard find a explorer/ranger w two piece pass side upper, buy it, install it and order a new two piece outer with ball joint and start over.......

Been there done that a few times with my own trucks years ago and for my customers. Why they sell the one piece upper is beyond me

Last edited on Sat May 12th, 2018 10:23 am by 410customs

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JAMMAN

Posted: Sat May 12th, 2018 11:13 am

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JAMMAN

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I saved the 2 piece. And I'm going to save the one off the expo in the back I'm stripping.

The logic with buying the one piece was new bushings, wasn't my logic I got it from a forum somewhere.

The one piece should have worked if it was the right length, the adjustment is there there are slots where the bolt goes in and the cams have right and left ledges to hit and adjust.

I'm curious as to where they ran out of slot it was at .6 degrees neg, as far as they could get it. Driver side could have been zero but he put it at neg .5 to match the right.

I just don't understand why you can't get a one piece that is right. That half degree would have amounted to like .05" out further at the top and if it were .100" longer you would have had adjustment on both sides.

On your suggestion I will probably throw the 2 piece back on there before tires with a new upper ball of course.

There has to be engineering data on where that arm is and the slots are that a proper arm could have been made. I do harder stuff daily at work.

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Posted: Sat May 12th, 2018 12:17 pm

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If pass side is still out 0.6 is that with the max correction shin installed? If not why don't you just order a .5-6 camber correction and install? Allowing both sides to be brought to 0

Last edited on Sat May 12th, 2018 12:21 pm by 410customs

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Posted: Sat May 12th, 2018 01:30 pm

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JAMMAN

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Never seen one, what do they look like? Link?

And thanks by the way :)

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Posted: Sat May 12th, 2018 08:51 pm

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https://www.amazon.com/Moog-K80065-Camber-Adjusting-Kit/dp/B000C59Z68

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Posted: Sat May 12th, 2018 09:51 pm

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JAMMAN

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LOL OK you have not read the entire thread carefully. I have those on there. All 4 bolts have those.

Being a machinist and understanding geometry at depth I would have busted the bottom loose and knocked it toward the motor a little. The camber was obviously negative when I bought it, it remains a little negative even with adjustment. Something was off from the start.

Our company has a frame shop we work with when I get new tires if the tire place can't handle it I'll take it there, they will bend things till it is perfect but will charge me 150. I had to take a crown vic there one time that the tire shop wouldn't align.

All good, the truck drives better than it ever has and I'm happy. For the next 10 minutes or so LOL.

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Posted: Sun May 13th, 2018 07:02 am

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Mike69

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410customs wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/Moog-K80065-Camber-Adjusting-Kit/dp/B000C59Z68
When I replaced the upper control arms on my 2000 Ranger 4x4 I used the 1 piece upper control arm & installed the camber adjusting kits on both sides & the tire store I took my Ranger to had no problem aligning it.

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JAMMAN

Posted: Sun May 13th, 2018 07:57 am

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JAMMAN

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Plenty of research brought me to that Mike, thanks for upholding it.

Conclusion? The alignment shop I took it to was insufficient. On to the next chapter.

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Posted: Sun May 13th, 2018 09:19 am

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I used Moog Left control arm CK8708T & right control arm CK8710T from RockAuto. Ed and I put them on with the original cambolts. Firestone had no issues aligning NoPower. The front wheels use to look like this when facing head on / now they look like this | |. :rock

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