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If I come into contact with an active sh       #: 176
 Moderated by: Mike69, MaDMaXX, Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
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 Posted: Tue Nov 14th, 2017 01:37 am
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Undrstm8ed
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A thought provoking article I thought worthy of sharing.. definitely not recomended for the heavy ego'd.. lol

"In light of recent tragic events, it has me pondering a simple question. If I come into contact with an active shooter, should I engage him or not? Notice how I said should I engage not “would” I engage. As far as that question is concerned I don't know. My testosterone-fueled ego wants me to say yeah I would, but to be honest I have no idea. I have had no formal training and have never been in a combat situation before. I have no idea how I would handle that type of adrenaline.
 
So I made a pros vs. cons list to better help my mental thought process. The one pro of engaging an active shooter is the possibility of halting their progress and saving lives. This is obviously a HUGE pro and a very selfless act because of the potential for you to be killed in the process. It might also distract the shooter from other innocent bystanders and give the police the ample time they need to arrive on the scene. For some, this alone may be enough reason to engage a mass a shooter.
 
As far as cons are concerned, I had come up with many more than I had anticipated..."


READ MORE




Last edited on Tue Nov 14th, 2017 01:38 am by Undrstm8ed



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 Posted: Tue Nov 14th, 2017 05:59 am
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It would depend on proximity and exact situation to me. If they already fired a few off and it was evident their motive was to leave nobody alive I would do everything I could to bring them down first.

If they had already shot a member of my family you couldn't stop me.

If it was a scared teenager taking hostages for some kind of 15 minute glory or a suicide masking I think I would stand down and observe till the police filled him full of holes.

A good cop can usually tell who the good guy is and who the bad guy is, I've been pulled over with my gun and the cop didn't care especially since I followed state protocol WHICH they teach you even in the lowest form of CCW training. Mine was a little more in depth and I'm glad.

Collateral damage? That's what hollow points are for. If there is a bad guy standing in front of my kid a large chunk of brain meat might go splashing on my kid traumatizing them forever but I doubt if the bullet will make it that far.

Any time I'm not at the range I have 11 rounds in the clip, 12 more in another clip. The 12th is in the chamber, no safety lock. I pray every day I never have to use it and statistically I probably won't but you can't put out a fire with a stick of butter I want to be mildly prepared just in case.



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 Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2017 02:35 pm
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MaDMaXX

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I stopped carrying clips for mine after they kept getting jammed in the mag well :D

It's a good and often posed question though, i'm fairly in line with Jamman here, but i know HP's typically travel around 12-16 inches through ballistic gel, i'd be more wary re penetration.



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 Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2017 05:15 pm
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Some numbers and caliber information..

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 Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2017 07:54 pm
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I'm not going to dive into the potentially long "read more", etc because the answer to the concern is rather clear......a person would have to quickly assess the situation and decide, and it would be on a case-by-case basis. For example, the shooter in LasVegas last month, I'd quickly take cover because in a matter of seconds (and not just me, even a somewhat gun savy/shooting enthusiast/etc) it would be clear by the circumstances that you're powerfully outgunned, you don't even know where he's shooting from (not did the cops for awhile, and that says a LOT), and you won't stand a chance with anything you're carrying. On the other hand, if in a gun-free movie theater in Denver, CO and some fruit loop with his hair dyed red opened fire, hell yeah, fight crime shoot back. Would I personally have tried to take him out ASAP? Dunno since I wasn't there but I do know one thing, I"d be inclined to pump a few rounds through the ceiling or up high in the walls above him and see if this neutralized the threat (ie, "the Joker"). The mere fact that a person realizes that they are being SHOT AT by armed person trying to possibly take them out is going to invoke tremendous psychology in their head that has the potential to diffuse the situation. The element of surprise used right is a power tool. :D

Last edited on Wed Nov 15th, 2017 08:00 pm by CBB9M



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 Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2017 08:16 pm
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I would. If I have a chance to save 1 life or more I couldn't stand by and watch them gun down helpless people. If I have my choise they would be leaving in a body bag. I would again feel I finally have a purpose.

Last edited on Wed Nov 15th, 2017 08:20 pm by NoPower



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 Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2017 08:59 pm
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If the answer is no, why do you have a CCW??


Granted there are situations not to, but in a situation where you could do something, and you have a CCW (IE: a means to do something about it), it should be a yes.


I am actually very interested in hearing why it would be a no in the above scenario..



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 Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2017 09:02 pm
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Honestly, a no reason would be that it's unsafe to do so - and as much as all of this is unsafe, i'm talking about mitigated risks.

If there was no clear line of sight, if there was a poor background (collateral) if you couldn't get a shot off before being hit first, that kind of thing.



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 Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 05:56 am
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Since we don't allow guns legally in the UK it isn't something I have ever considered and while I understand the motivation to take a shooter out, I would rather disable them so they can spend many years being screwed by other inmates....

Perhaps if I lived in the US I would carry a taser - are they allowed?



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 Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 12:53 pm
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Wow they don't allow guns over there? Does everyone know Karate or carry machetes? How do you even the playing field?



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 Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 01:43 pm
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JAMMAN wrote: Wow they don't allow guns over there? Does everyone know Karate or carry machetes? How do you even the playing field?

You don't - but since the preferred weapons of terror these days are vehicles, we all have one of those.... you can also get arrested for carrying a knife or any other offensive weapon.

Gun crime is very rare here. You are more likely to face a knife attack in London or get mown down by a fanatic in a vehicle.




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So things got better since 2009?



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 Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 03:13 pm
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2016 figures would be 2.04 per 10,000 for London

BUT those figure include instances where a gun was threatened but not seen or produced.

UK gun deaths are about 1 in a million versus 160 in a million in the US.



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 Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 05:20 pm
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I bet the cops have guns. Is the vetting so solid you don't get bad cops?



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 Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 05:29 pm
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Only the armed Police squads have guns - most do not. Yes the vetting & training is intense and they operate as teams, never alone.

OOOPS - wrong me..... :whatever:

Last edited on Thu Nov 16th, 2017 05:30 pm by dingle

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 Posted: Fri Nov 17th, 2017 01:31 am
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Guns are allowed in the UK, they're just very restricted, it's kind of funny, in a, i no longer have to deal with it, kind of way.

Crime stats are also off unfortunately, unless there is a conviction, and a conviction for the reported crime, it doesn't get stat'ed, so those numbers are low.

Also, gun crimes/use are not reported as a general rule, no idea why not, if you talk to enough coppers, or even medical personal (in the right areas) you'll find out they don't really bat an eyelid much anymore with injuries coming in or reports over the radio, media doesn't know/care.


Anyway, yeah, it's weird there, you are more likely to have knife crimes, they really do get reported on the news, along with 'truck crimes' these days.



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 Posted: Fri Nov 17th, 2017 07:02 am
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Also take into consideration that as of 2016, the UK has 65.64 million (2016) people in it. That's the British Isles themselves, Scotland, and Ireland combined vs. 323.1 million (2016) in the US. So even the assaults are gonna seem low in comparison.

It' the same with when everyone goes oh, well we should have free education all the way through the college level like Norway... Riiiiigghht... Norway has 5.233 million (2016) living in it and the tax base us somehere north of 67% in comparison to the average 27% here.. TRUST ME when I say they're paying for it and more so. Dump 200 million more people In the mix, watch taxes go down and all the free   so to speak go away.

As far as gun control here in the US, likely may be the catalyst to another or THE civil war and in its entirety will come at some point. I personally believe in the fact that since you never truly own anything in this life and in the sense of the US, the banks own everything. Good example: stop paying property tax even on a paid off home and see how fast they come take your property despite there is CLEAR courtroom evidence where the banks state that they are a fraud and that NO MONIES are given, it'
 Your signature that creates the money NOT them. And when those banks come to collect on your properties, they don't want to get their asses or heads shot off...



Watch that video, then understand how and why in 1933 the government made it illegal to own gold here in the US, then take the time to really read through HJR 192 (House Joint Resolution 192) then watch that video again.

If that doesn' ring some alarms in your head, you may be more dangerous to society and yourself than any gun. It's No longer a conspiracy "theory" when you have proof of fraud, and you connect the dots. 


Last edited on Fri Nov 17th, 2017 07:05 am by Undrstm8ed



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 Posted: Fri Nov 17th, 2017 01:30 pm
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Wait, it's illegal to own gold?! Wtf?!

I'm assuming in a form not for 'decoration' ?



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 Posted: Fri Nov 17th, 2017 03:17 pm
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MaDMaXX wrote: Wait, it's illegal to own gold?! Wtf?!

I'm assuming in a form not for 'decoration' ?


Not so much however, I must put these in order for you [all] to understand correctly.

"Executive Order 6102. Executive Order 6102 is a United States presidential executive order signed on April 5, 1933, by President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the Hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States"."
Shy of wedding bands and exempted heirlooms, you couldnt own more than 2 0z. of gold if I recall correctly.


"34 - Executive Order 6102—Requiring Gold Coin, Gold Bullion and Gold Certificates to Be Delivered to the Government April 5, 1933 By virtue of the authority vested in me by Section 5 (b) of the Act of October 6, 1917, as amended by Section 2 of the Act of March 9, 1933, entitled "An Act to provide relief in the existing national emergency in banking, and for other purposes," in which amendatory Act Congress declared that a serious emergency exists, I, Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do declare that said national emergency still continues to exist and pursuant to said section do hereby prohibit the hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States by individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations and hereby prescribe the following regulations for carrying out the purposes of this order:Section 1. For the purposes of this regulation, the term "hoarding" means the withdrawal and withholding of gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates from the recognized and customary channels of trade. The term "person" means any individual, partnership, association or corporation. Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve Bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:


Read More...


And FYI...
Governments Still Heavy-Handed 80 Years After FDR's Gold Confiscation..

So seizing private gold and then devaluing the currency was in fact a 1930s version of quantitative easing. Saving our banks from their stupidity still means swelling the money supply, and hurting cautious savers by devaluing their wealth. While gold is still hoarded by governments (and increasingly by fast-growing emerging economies), it is only tenuously tied to our currency system as the "foundation" of sovereign reserves.


When I was a student, I hated American History, it was boring, lacked excitement and diverse collaboration mentally. I really got excited about world history. The Greek empire, the Roman empire, the beginning of written or recorded history and historical facts. It only got better as I grew older and met people from around the world and worked with many older people only a couple generations deep from what would be considered the Stanton Island migration of immigrants here in this country.

I was thrilled into seeing and understanding how civilization took root and spread, the cultures, the languages, the exchanges of goods and trading [one of the reasons why lawyers, or I should say Attorney's even exists is due to trading internationally] among other things.

And then several years ago, something changed in life. Not to get too far off in subject matter but I've had more than my shares of run ins with local and State authorities and court rooms. Nothing major, mostly stupid young adult   but had I known then what I have learned in law topics now. I'd have two States in fear of me or be dead and buried for bringing it to light like some others have.

Anyway, things changed in life, and several years ago I became interested in law after the Ex was dragging me in and out of court and was financially getting my ass handed to me in slightly smaller halves each time over and over.. things didnt make any sense to me, no surprise, I run against the grain in all things including those who self proclaim authority. No offense to someone already here who is employed as an agent for the State of California. Don't misunderstand me or my perspective, its nothing personal at all, but I'll bet I understand your oath better than you do [legal Standing wise, not presumptionary].

Anyway all of a sudden law, case law, CONTRACT law, history and historical fact as cited under US Congressional records [NOT public fools education], US Title, US Code [or CFR], State Code [also known as UCC] as well as traffic court under that, and family court. Etymology of words, definitions [which change more often than you would think], and boy oh boy did I both gain some respect among my Federal and State agent friends and lose some of those friends. Those are the ones I say who protect a paycheck more so than uphold their Oaths, but even for those few as Oath keepers fully understand their role and job description because they too have been lied to in order to become a tool for revenue generation.

I think I may share more in a entirely different post so this one doesn't get derailed from its intended path despite all coming around full circle in relevance.

Last edited on Fri Nov 17th, 2017 03:21 pm by Undrstm8ed



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 Posted: Fri Nov 17th, 2017 03:27 pm
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And just to get back on track;

My take on problems with Australia's defense of liberty, use of guns etc. since the UK was brought up and well, Australia is a nation thereof its own but British citizenship is also there as well as MANY other places including that of India, South Africa.. etc.. etc.. but.

1. English based law and rights

2. Minimal resistance to UN/Global mandates. They have a population only 1/2 that of California, when the UN says jump, and anti-gun contractors and paid lobbyists are flown in from around the world to campaign, they are out muscled fairly easily.

3. Despite the 'outback/outdoors reputation', 70% of the population lives in just 5-6 cities. Their voting power wipes out the country folk. The US has entire regional and rural state populations to outweigh the elite's madness, also due to its spread out population base, in the early days it afforded more autonomous decision making at county and state level just to be able to administer the country. Australia is just too centralized, literally eastern bloc style. Canberra, the capital says jump, and half a dozen states and territories say How High.

4. Gun owners actually support various gun control measures themselves. Half the damage in the 1996 laws was gun owners being turned against each other, selling each other's gun types down the drain. (semi autos vs bolt action for example)

5. Australians in general support the 'government safety culture/ religion'. mandatory seat-belts, mandatory pool fencing, mandatory bike helmets, mandatory dog leashes, mandatory emergency gear on boats, mandatory house smoke alarms, etc., etc. it's a long list of stuff we survived without fine until the 90's and regardless of perceived benefits the issue is when you submit to government oversight of your personal safety choices, it is very hard to justify anything as 'dangerous' as a gun, or fighting someone to defend yourself..

I consider the US as a country of 323 million and the 2A still loses entire states and cities to left wing madness (I think Hawaii, Connecticut, DC, NYC to name a few are almost as bad as Australia's gun laws ...and California doesn't look far behind...)

Not much hope for a little country of 23 million then.

Last edited on Fri Nov 17th, 2017 03:30 pm by Undrstm8ed



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"Be never first, never last and never noticed." - Unknown

"The slave is held most securely when he is held by the chains of his own will and of his own fears, and when he is locked down by his own slavish desires for a comfortable life." - Michael Bunker

"Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur" - ~ attributed to Petronius (Gaius Petronius Arbiter (ca. 27–66 AD))
Roman courtier during the reign of Nero.

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." - Thomas Paine


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 Posted: Fri Nov 17th, 2017 08:36 pm
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LOL. Here's some news to cheer folks up. :D

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2017/11/17/rogue-planet-could-bring-end-days-this-weekend.html

Last edited on Fri Nov 17th, 2017 08:40 pm by CBB9M



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 Posted: Fri Nov 17th, 2017 08:50 pm
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Awwww and I just got the forum going! Earth can't be destroyed till we reach a million posts.



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00 XLT 4WD RCSB 3.GO! Jalapeño
01 XLT 2WD RC Steppie 3.0 auto Silver
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 Posted: Fri Nov 17th, 2017 09:07 pm
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CBB9M
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Chemtrails, a desperate effort to starve off global warming. JFK death and Oswald was a scapegoat. Bilderberg. The TLC. HAARP. We didn't land on the moon, that was a hoax. Free Masons. Bigfoot is for real. The Lochness monster. UFO's. Roswell. FEMA is building concentration camps. ISLAM is the religion of peace. The New World Order (NWO). AIDS and Ebola are diseases made by white people and spread among black, to wipe them out. The government is trying to normalize the homo lifestyle to mitigate overpopulating planet Earth. Oh the conspiracy list, so long and so creative.



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04 Ranger FX4 Level II, several mods
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 Posted: Fri Nov 17th, 2017 09:17 pm
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JAMMAN

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You forgot the Russians hacking the election so that Trump would win.



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01 XLT 2WD RC Steppie 3.0 auto Silver
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 Posted: Fri Nov 17th, 2017 09:19 pm
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Yea.. they've been saying that since 1998, 2005, 2007, 2012, 2013, 2015,.... you get it. I had a friend obsessed with the Niribu fantasy planet and I watched it drive her into depression and anxieties like nothing I've ever seen before in human behavior.


And not to fight conspiracy with conspiracy (depending on your beliefs) but if your ok with the 680+ prophecies that've come true from the Bible, then believing it when it says this world never ends should be a comfort over a reoccurring farce and distraction of a rogue planet that should have made contact years ago if not sooner.

If MSM is good at is always creating a boogeymen.. This terrorist group is gonna kill you, this guy is gonna kill you, NOPE this group is gonna kill you first, your gonna die from a gun, meteors are gonna take out all life, gun toting ground squirrels with ties to ANTIFA and upset about spoiled milk are raping your mothers and daughters... blah blah

Its one thing to argue law written and not understood, Argue history unknown or misconstrued. but Aliens and runaway planets claiming to be on a collision course with us to allow the Nyphilum Giants or fallen ones whatever the hell people are believing these days is a whole other Jerry Springer show.

Im confident in Jamman wish of a million posts will conclude WAYYYYyyyyy before that planet actually comes into the solar system if ever at all it exists beyond the soft purple headed yogurt slinging heads of those who believe in it..





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"Be never first, never last and never noticed." - Unknown

"The slave is held most securely when he is held by the chains of his own will and of his own fears, and when he is locked down by his own slavish desires for a comfortable life." - Michael Bunker

"Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur" - ~ attributed to Petronius (Gaius Petronius Arbiter (ca. 27–66 AD))
Roman courtier during the reign of Nero.

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." - Thomas Paine


~ Undrstm8ed Truckumentry Write Up Pg.

~ Undrstm8ed Trailermentry Write Up Pg.
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