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Guns & Ammo       #: 123
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 Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2018 02:19 am
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TheArcticWolf1911
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Curious, why throw away the +P ammunition?

As for mixing ammo, I personally find that to be a bad idea, looking at it from a legal point of view, or rather how the law would view you if they found out. Paul explains it better than I.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2IIaauR84A



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 Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2018 03:07 pm
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Most +P ammo require a four-inch minimum barrel to burn the extra powder.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2018 03:08 pm
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MaDMaXX

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ie. no gain to be had.

Shove it through your .357 when you get it, no need to *actually* chuck it.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2018 03:16 pm
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There is also the issue that Charter made a pile of the 38 special "Undercover" models that were not rated for +p ammo.

Shooting the +p and +p+ in a 357 would be the only option see for it. I am not a big fan of 38spl because of it's pressure limitation. However I do like hot 38 spl loads in a 357.



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 Posted: Fri Aug 31st, 2018 11:46 am
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RiggerWings
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I have a Taurus .38 (model 85) that I bought due a huge a sale. It's a little stubby 5-rounder. It's rated for +P

I also have a 1949 Colt .38 Police Special, its a 6" barrel but I'd never run +P through it.

I was trying to throw some pics up but my imaging host (Imgur) is down for maintenance apparently.



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 Posted: Fri Aug 31st, 2018 02:45 pm
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TheArcticWolf1911
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Ah, I see. Yeah, once i realized what I had I immediately decided not to run it through the Undercover. Later tonight or tomorrow I'm buzzing over to Academy to grab a box of winchester .38 special.

If I were to buy another snubbie (which is unlikely), it would be a 357. I love the way that number rolls off the tongue. Three fifty seven MAGNUM.

Not sure if I mentioned it in my prior post, but it also occured to me that these rounds could all be someone's reloads. Granted, ammunition of a similar design is going to look, well, similar, but it could very well be that these are all loaded to a mild .38 spec. Only way to tell would be to pull the bullets (not sure how you'd do that with a wadcutter shape) and do some measuring.

Speaking of wadcutters, I hear they're great at making nice round holes in paper, but why are they called 'wadcutters'? I would think 'cookie cutter', 'hole cutter', 'hole saw', etc would be a bit more revealing to it's nature.



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 Posted: Fri Aug 31st, 2018 04:15 pm
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For .38Spl a wadcutter is a soft lead tube .356-.357" usually 125gr to 160gr that fit inside the casing. It was held in place with a roll crimp right at the end of the tube. It cut a nice little hole in paper and can expand up to 3/4" when shot in a water jug. A WC is easy to cast and to size. It worked well in revolvers for target practice and SD.

If you think that those bullets are reloads I would steer clear of them. The only value is to pull the bullets, toss the powder, and reload the primed cases with a known powder load. Go with known good ammo.

As a reloader of 40+ years there are very few people I trust enough that I will shoot their reloads. Most reloaders feel the same way. I have never have blown up a gun but I have had a few squib loads of the thousands rounds I have loaded. But I have had more squib rounds shooting commie block surplus ammo than I have of my reloads.



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 Posted: Fri Aug 31st, 2018 04:22 pm
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MaDMaXX

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Upload pics to the gallery here, don't rely on igmur etc.



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 Posted: Fri Aug 31st, 2018 05:19 pm
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TheArcticWolf1911
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Here's what the ammunition looks like. The projectile doesn't look a thing like you described. I can get a close up if it helps.



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 Posted: Fri Aug 31st, 2018 07:26 pm
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Look to be semi-wad cutters.



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 Posted: Fri Aug 31st, 2018 09:12 pm
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If they all have the same projectile in them and have different headstamp you have reloads. And yes, they do look like SWC.

BTW: a 38 Special case has enough volume in it to double load a 357 Magnum load of bulky slow burning powder and not fill the case. You can get 10x powder load with a fast burning powder.

When I was a teenager my dad taught me a hybrid magnum load with a 125gr SWC - most seasoned reloaders will now say this is a bad idea. The SWC had 2 lube groves and the grove near the head is where the crimp went for both 38 and 357. Dads Hybrid load was a 357 powder in a 38 Special case with the crimp in the bottom lube grove. The loaded bullet was too long for a 38 Special cylinder but worked fine in a 357 Magnum. I had a Ruger 357 Mag Security Six back then and shot thousands of these reloads with no incident.



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 Posted: Fri Aug 31st, 2018 11:50 pm
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Since everyone loves pics, here's the .38 snubby I mentioned earlier. The round is a Hornady Critical Defense 110gr. For being a little guy, it shoots pretty well.




I've always wanted to try reloading but I've never gotten around to it. If I start, I'll go with a few rifle calibers first.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 1st, 2018 12:07 am
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TheArcticWolf1911
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Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking, Tsquare. I know someone who reloads, so I'll see if he has any use for the components.

Suppose I could pull the bullet carefully, dump the powder and fire the primer to make myself a crap load of dummy rounds. I don't play around with wadcutters of any kind so there would be very little chance of it being mistaken for a live round, or vise versa.

The more I think about it, the less comfortable I am firing these cartridges even in a modern, beefy, 357 revolver. I think I'll just play it safe and dispose of them or re-purpose them. Definately hanging onto the cases if I ever do get into reloading. I love nickel cases...



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 Posted: Sat Sep 1st, 2018 12:57 am
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I got a little new information I'd like to toss out there. 3-D was a ammunition re-manufacturing company.

This guy here ran into basically the same thing I am. https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255931

This would explain the uniformity despite the head stamp differences.

I'm searching for information about them, but unfortunately my searches are being clouded by 3D printed guns. What I have found so far is consistent. Cheap, bulk, reloaded ammo. Some theorize the 'police' part might be because they had a contract with police departments who would send in their casings for reloading.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 1st, 2018 09:52 am
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Reloading rifle is much more difficult than strait walled pistol rounds. Start to finish I can load about 350-400 pistol rounds per hour. For rifle the case prep takes a lot of extra effort with the annealing, sizing, and trimming of the cases prior to loading them up. There is also the reaming of primer pockets if it once fired NATO cases. To load 500 rounds of rifle I have 4 to 6 hours invested in it. 

There are a lot of companies that sell "re-manufactured" ammo and will use different headstamps in the process. The guy I buy most of my powder from has 4 commercial grade presses that pump out .223, .308, 9mm, and 45ACP. He makes decent ammo. 

With my reloading I sort brass by headstamp for consistency. I also tune the load to a gun. My primary target pistol is a Colt 1911 Govt 9mm. I also have a a 92AF INOX that has nightstand duty. The ammo for the 1911 is a lower powder level with a .355 bullet. The 92AF takes a bit more powder and a .356 sized bullet for it's most accurate load. Re-loading allows me to make match grade ammo for sightly less than what cheap ammo sells for on-line.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 1st, 2018 12:57 pm
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Tsquare wrote:
Reloading rifle is much more difficult than strait walled pistol rounds. Start to finish I can load about 350-400 pistol rounds per hour. For rifle the case prep takes a lot of extra effort with the annealing, sizing, and trimming of the cases prior to loading them up. There is also the reaming of primer pockets if it once fired NATO cases. To load 500 rounds of rifle I have 4 to 6 hours invested in it. 

I'd only want to reload rifle rounds due to their cost. Good .30-06 ammo is about $1 a round or better. I also have 3 rifles that will take .223. It can be had cheap enough but I think reloading could be a fun hobby, though tedious.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 1st, 2018 10:32 pm
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I find certain aspects of reloading relaxing. I have some boutique calibers I reload so it is a big cost savings (45GAP and 6.8SPC).  I have the dies for 30-06 and I deer hunt with my 30-06. I shoot less than 10 rounds per year and I have enough hunting ammo for 20 years. 

It cost 25-45 cents per round for rifle and 6-13 cents per round on pistol. I only buy reloading supplies when they are on sale and I buy in bulk. I will buy the Cabella's gift cards when they are on sale, then use them to buy primers when they are on sale, and use a military discount to get them as cheap as possible. At last inventory I have 16K small pistol primer on the shelf with average cost at 2.23 cents per primer. I have almost a 2 year supply on hand and I haven't bought primers in over 2 years. I also buy a years supply of projectiles during the Black Friday sales so I get the cheapest price of the year. Last Black Friday I got 9mm at 6.3 cents per bullet and 45 at 8.7 cents per bullet. I will buy an 8lb jug of powder at my LGS for pistol it is running less than 2 cents per completed bullet. Rifle is about 3 to 5 times more on powder, 15-25 cents per projectile, and the same for the primers.

As far as cost goes I find that I shoot more so I am not saving anything. The reloading also gives me a better understanding of what a bullet will do with "X" amount of powder under different atmospheric conditions. When I had learned this lesson I was able to make the consistent 1000 yard shot. I don't shoot the long ranges anymore as there is not one within a reasonable drive near me.

As far as my ammo supplies go, in blue states I would be an extremest. Here in the South I am normal to under supplied.



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 Posted: Sun Sep 2nd, 2018 10:37 pm
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TheArcticWolf1911
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Well, I went shooting today and burnt up a whole bunch of ammo. That Vortex scope works great, not much to say about it otherwise. M1 Garand kept on pinging to no surprise. Only two malfunctions, same as I had last time, where the round to be fed would kick sideways and subsequently lock the action open. Easy enough to fix. I suspect either a spring isn't keeping enough tension on the rounds or the clips I bought are... less than perfect, shall we say.

I did run into a bit of a bummer with the revolver. The cylinder stop stud fell out at some point. Not sure when, and therefor was not recovered. I can't comment on accuracy as I only put 20 rounds through it at 50 yards. I'm not real good with a handgun past 15 yards, let alone 50, much less a handgun I'm unfamiliar with.

The cylinder stop stud didn't necessarily work well. It worked sometimes, but the cylinder easily jumped over it when swinging out, thus completely defeating it's purpose. I think I can make a new one and then cold blue it, using a little loctite 603 / equivalent to help hold it in place.

....Or, I can buy another one from numrich. I suspect buying an OEM part would land me back where I started, with a cylinder stop that only sometimes works. The revolver is still perfectly usable as it is, only trouble is you have to hold the cylinder while ejecting.

Would be nice if I could fill the hole with a taper pin and cold blued and swap the ejector mechanism with that of a revolver that didn't rely on the frame mounted cylinder stop. Do all revolvers use a frame mounted cylinder stop? I didn't think they did. Suggestions?

Edit. Just looked at a few popular revolvers on google images. Apparently that's the typical style. Was not aware of that.

< Is not revolver savvy, clearly.

Last edited on Sun Sep 2nd, 2018 10:40 pm by TheArcticWolf1911



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 Posted: Sun Sep 2nd, 2018 11:34 pm
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When you get the cylinder stop, clean everything with 99% alcohol. Use the red 271 loctite to put it back together. It should stay put with that.



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Well I had a little shadetree gunsmith fun. I opted to simply not use the .38 specials I had received with the revolver.

That same day I went shooting, a S&W M&P15 had a catastrophic failure a bay down from me. Nobody was hurt. Cause was unknown. The guy shooting had federal ammunition (bought new) and ammunition he got from "his army buddy". It wasn't clear which it was out of the two, as the action simply would not open, even with hammering on the charging handle. The upper was bulged, magazine puffed and blown out, ammunition in the magazine destroyed, basically everything on that rifle (save for the furniture) was FUBAR. I suspect either a doublecharge happened at the factory or a .300 blackout found it's way into that 5.56 rifle. Nobody really knew at the time, again given the action was seriously closed up tight. I suppose an out of battery detonation was possible, but I doubt it.

I'm not a believer in fate, but there have been a couple instances in my life where the coincidence was.... a little bit too coincidental, for lack of a better phrase.

Given I didn't really *know* where the ammunition came from, I decided to pull it all apart. Seeing that AR blow up like that kind of makes me feel that was perhaps a warning, which I plan on heeding.

I found that a 3/8ths drive socket (I chose a 3/4 head size) holds the rim of a .38 nicely, the drive portion that is. At first I tried straight up pulling it out. That worked once but not again. Eventually it dawned on me to use the 'slide hammer' principle. Back the teeth of the pliers (large pliers with substantial weight) up to the socket, pull fast and strong. A couple or three tugs and the projectile came out, sometimes on the first try. Dump the powder, swap cartridges and continue.

I'm going to make a handful of dummy rounds out of the best casings and projectiles, filling the void in the case with hot glue.

To fire the primers, I stuck the cases into the revolver's cylinder, placed it between two folded towels and pulled the trigger. Muffles it surprisingly well. Did this for all the cases. I saved five of the unique ones, so 98 rounds were disassembled in total.

Granted, there was some powder spillage, but it seemed like there was more powder in some cases than others, but for no rhyme or reason. It's possible a few used a slower burning powder and thus required more of it, but... Eh, still looked sketchy to me.

With the leftover powder I dumped it into a metal pan and dropped a lit match into it. Made a nice fireball. The rest of the projectiles I don't use along with the rest of the casings will be scrapped. Even if I did reload, I quite frankly don't trust any components I would have been able to scavenge from these rounds.



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 Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2018 11:16 pm
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Made a few purchases. I ordered a "D" mainspring for my 92A1 as well as a TLR-1. The D spring was an awesome upgrade. Makes that double action trigger pull much easier, and a somewhat crisper single action trigger. If I ever add more Beretta 92 pistols to my collection, they will get that same treatment. I'd love to have an INOX 92FS, or maybe the brigadier model. Not sure.

The TLR-1 is a sweet piece of hardware. I found it odd though that the 1913 key included did not fit my 1913 rail. I don't know if the key or my gun is out of spec, but right now I have the Glock key installed. I'm going to do some measuring and maybe see about coaxing the 1913 key into spec. Need to find those specifications, first, though.

I also just ordered a new holster to accommodate the light from Black Rhino Concealment. It's an IWB kydex convertable holster. There have been times where the pants I'm wearing don't allow for an IWB holster, leaving me to go back to my 1911 or now stick my .38 special in my front pocket. I opted to go for the 'threaded barrel' option in the customization, even though as of now I don't have one. If I want one later then it's not an issue, and it didn't cost me anything extra to select that option. Lead time is 1 - 2 weeks so it'll be a while before I get it.

With the D spring and light I now have what I would consider as close as I'll ever get to the perfect carry gun for me.



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 Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2018 11:20 pm
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The D spring is pretty nice, i'm 99% certain i got one for mine.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 15th, 2018 02:14 pm
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I had a tight sphincter moment this morning at the indoor range near me. About 1/3 of the stations were occupied so it was a fairly light day for the weekend. There were two couples firing out of the far left station and I was in the far right station shooting my pistol. The RO called ceasefire and fussed at the couples about sweeping the firing line with their rifle. About 5 minutes after we went back to shooting a bullet hit the cinder block wall about 6 feet in front of my station.

I called the ceasefire and pointed out the bullet splatter just in front of my station. The RO shut down the range and said everybody there had to go watch the 5 minute safety video before they could use the range again as nobody confessed that they caused the ND. I have known the RO for about 5 years as he also works at a WMA outdoor range I like to shoot at that is undergoing renovation right now.



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That is worse than irresponsible it almost has to be intentional how could anyone have aim that bad?



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The RO  is a retired State Patrol. I got a call from him about an hour after the incident with him apologizing for what happened. The splatter was that of a 30 caliber and only rifle being shot that was a 30 cal was the AK the couples were using.  Everybody except for them watched the safety video and returned back to the range. I was exempted as I was the one who called the cease fire. 

I will stick to going during the week from now on. If I go on Tuesday's at 10 I see the same regulars. My blood pressure has been through the roof since it happened.



____________________
Tony
NE ATL
'04 XLT regular cab 3.slo stepside
Semi retirement
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