Cab swap and PATS - Electrical Tech - Tech Section

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Arthur
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Okay, say I wanted to put the cab from 2007 auto on the frame of a 2008 manual.
PATS is a sender around the barrel and a module in the glovebox right?
The module is "married" to the car's ECM right?

So if I switch the keymechanism and PATS module from the 2008 into the 2007 cab I should just be able to use the 2008 ignition key without programming anything or the PATS freaking out?

Have to use 2008 ECU because manual.

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2007 FX4 Level II auto: new project!

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Posted: Tue May 19th, 2020 10:19 pm

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JAMMAN

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yup easy peasy. Almost sounds like you've done this before.

You might want to take the GEM also and swap it. I don't know if it is married to the GEM or not but just in case.

Just thinking of things that forscan "sees", it sees the RCM too but I'm sure it isn't paired with it because I put a replacement in one of mine after finding out it had an explorer RCM which threw a constant code.

I would switch all 3 why not you will be in there :)

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Posted: Thu May 21st, 2020 10:02 am

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Idahome

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gem in 2007?
pats module in a 2008?
These things do not exist anymore............... I'm a bit lost here. You should just be swapping cabs, not wiring, pats, or computer modules.....

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Posted: Thu May 21st, 2020 10:12 am

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JAMMAN

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Wow there is no Gem in 2007? I'm back to the drawing board, I need to study beyond 03. Sorry.

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Posted: Thu May 21st, 2020 10:16 am

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JAMMAN

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OK the ECU is attached to the old cab, the GEM or lack therof is attached to the old cab, the RCM or lack therof is attached to the cab, therefore I figured it had to be "swapped" to the new cab. Jamie you are considering that stuff an integral part of the "wiring" and I'm considering it attached to the "cab" I think that is where the confusion is.

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Posted: Thu May 21st, 2020 10:27 am

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Idahome

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I see, I know I am easy to confuse, I tend to overthink stuff and can muddy up the waters.
Basically just swap sheet metal, you do not want to start mix matching electronic modules
Yes EVERYTHING must be swapped to the new "Cab"
Why are you swapping cabs? maybe we should start there!!

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Posted: Thu May 21st, 2020 11:36 am

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Arthur
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Oh wow ok guess I got confused with all the PATS issues I see...
So yeah keep all 2008 ECU/electronics/wiring.

About the cabswap... maybe I should make another thread. I'm not sure yet I want to do it. I got the 2008 manual that kissed some trees om the passemger side and has holes in the driverside door. Basically all the sheetmetal is thrashed. So is the front right "inner fender" part of the cab and broke right leafspring
Frame is great, trans and transfercase are great, motor runs 10x better at 305000km than the 2007/180000km.

Then there is the 2007 lvl II, long story short I might have overpaid at CAD2500. Ok it's a lvl II with only 180000km (auto) but it's in ROUGH shape. Auto trans has problems, steeri ng rack is leaking, leafsprings are flat. Torsion bars are tired, no carpet/floor, engine runs rough MAF problems,multiple codes,seized fanclutch.balljoints/bearings are shot
(Don't buy a vehicle when you're in a hurry)
And it had no alcoa's or towhooks and I allready had full skids and bilsteins on the 2008 lol...
Oh well I guess I got 4.10 gears,a Torsen, black interior and a whole lot of spare parts.
The body is far from in top shape but the steel is solid/no holes so that can be arranged.
Now the best part. The PO cut the front crossmember and about 1inch of the front of frame and welded a stupid plate bumper straight to the frame...

I could just fix up the 2007 but I really want a manual and I've always wanted to do a "frame-off" rebuild so I have a good solid base to last many 6month winters. still have that bumper fiasco to deal with

I could swap over the manual trans/pedals/ecu/flywheel to the 2007 but still have all the rest to do and that bumper.

So if I'm going to be taking cabs off frames anyway I was thinking why not use the frame/motor/drivetrain from the 2008 manual and the cab/bed/axles from the 2007 auto, some nice leafs, finish interior nicely, update wiring etc...

I'll be rebuilding/refurbishing everything anyway (but the front end of the 2008 allready has new bearings and upper arms)

So there's my dilemma

I finally have the space for bigger projects and have been wanting to do a more serious build for a long time.

Last edited on Thu May 21st, 2020 01:30 pm by Arthur

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2008 XLT 4x4 4.0 5Spd. Pretty much stock except 33's and Bilsteins: A bit broken for now.
2007 FX4 Level II auto: new project!

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Posted: Fri May 22nd, 2020 09:07 am

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Idahome

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oh goodie! My kind of people!! Well after 2005 things got a little more complex
There is no PATS module as the security system is integrated into the vehicle security module and PCM
There is no more gem module, instead there are several smaller modules or computers....like the 4x4 control module, the keyless entry/power lock module, smart power junction box and more. So all of these modules communicate with each other on a can bus system. Its not like the older trucks. So if you are going to do any frame/cab swappage I would plan to just swap sheet metal. Leave all the wiring, security key and all this complete and together.
The 07 could easily be fixed, auto trans has issues, flat springs and t bars, the only tough challenge is the frame where they hacked it off for the bumper. If you want to go back to stock some stock frame horns can be welded back on. FX4 Level II is going to hold the most value so that is the one I would fix up.....don't let the bumper situation turn you off to fixing that truck, anyone with a hacksaw and welder can fix that.

The question is what transmission do you want, auto or manual?
And how far away from me in Canada are you?

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Eddie Money

Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2020 10:19 am

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Arthur
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I'd really like to keep it manual.
I'm in Qu©bec so pretty far from Idaho sadly...
I don't really plan on selling it so retained value doesnt matter much (but who knows what the future holds)
When I bought the '08 I specifically looked for a more "base" model since I was going to modify it anyway. Seems a shame to butcher top of the line models.
On the other hand both trucks have a clean title and are currently registered.
Also no emission tests nor yearly mechanical inspection whatsoever in Qu©bec.
Both trucks are black extended cab 4.0 v6.So if I do cabswap I just keep VIN/plates from the 2007 and it's now a fx4 lvl ll manual.

The police can stop and send you to an inspection you if you have obvious stupid /illegal stuff on your truck/car (usually you only get 48hrs) like that bumper.

Take the front crossmember/horns from the 2008 and weld it on the 2007 is another option. But I don't know if I could pull it off without being obvious.
On the other hand if it looks stock again or even has a "proper" plate bumper no one is going to go look.

Also while I can weld and have the MIG at work and would be perfectly confident welding up a bumper and attaching that to a frame. I'm a bit more hesitant welding on the frame. Specially the front crossmember and all the forces involved. Also the way the bumper is welded on now.

I do tend to overthink things....

Edit: I also discovered an autocross/ice racing track just a couple miles away... now I have more idea's...

Last edited on Sat May 23rd, 2020 11:45 am by Arthur

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2008 XLT 4x4 4.0 5Spd. Pretty much stock except 33's and Bilsteins: A bit broken for now.
2007 FX4 Level II auto: new project!

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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2020 05:37 pm

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Arthur
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So...
Been looking over both trucks and still not 100% on which direction I want to go.
I looked at the bumper/crossmember situation more closely and if I can cut the plate bumper off reasonably cleanly I should be able to weld the crossmember back on.

With the electronics/wiring it seems the instrument cluster is part of the whole system now to avoid odometer fraud.

Which means in both previous scenario's
(swap the '07 cab sheetmetal to the '08 frame and keep all '08 electronics OR swap manual trans and all electronics from '08 to '07) I would lose the '07 lvl II instrument cluster as I have to use '08 ECM.
Unless ford dealer can "remarry" them? Or is that something any of the "tuners" can do?

Or fix the slushbox... it's not that bad, hard shift into 2nd sometimes, flare/surge sometimes (revs go up and down and doesn't seem to "grab" next gear), just all around slushy.

Aparently with a shift kit/updated valvebody they actually become acceptable to drive :)

Last edited on Tue Jun 2nd, 2020 05:39 pm by Arthur

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2008 XLT 4x4 4.0 5Spd. Pretty much stock except 33's and Bilsteins: A bit broken for now.
2007 FX4 Level II auto: new project!

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Posted: Wed Jun 3rd, 2020 09:40 am

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Idahome

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the 07 and 08 instrument clusters are likely interchangeable, Just because they talk to each other does not mean a 07 is going to have a seizure if you plug in a 08 instrument cluster
I am not sure who stores the mileage, the cluster or the cpu, Im guessing the cluster does.
welding to the frame rails up by the bumper is not a big deal It is welding to the frame down near the suspension parts, between the front and rear axle and around the steering gear that you have to really worry about the welds, up front by the bumper there is not much as way of "force" or anything critical that is going to effect the strength of your trucks frame.
I vote stick with the manual trans, build the truck you want!

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Posted: Wed Jun 3rd, 2020 10:46 am

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Arthur
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What I've gathered from my research (so far) is that pcm stores mileage and compares it to the mileage in the cluster on Ignition on and won't start if the pcm sees a different cluster.
I could keep the '08 cluster and change the face (tedious) but would still have 305000km on the odo with a 180000km drivetrain...
The dealer can reprogram it to the cluster apparently but some say they only do it if they install the cluster themselves. Have called but no clear answer on that yet.

Wouldn't it be possible to flash the 2007 auto pcm to manual?

Not much info on the '07+ rangers out there compared to older gens

Last edited on Wed Jun 3rd, 2020 10:49 am by Arthur

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2008 XLT 4x4 4.0 5Spd. Pretty much stock except 33's and Bilsteins: A bit broken for now.
2007 FX4 Level II auto: new project!

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Posted: Wed Jun 3rd, 2020 11:33 am

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Idahome

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I see, makes sense and makes it hard for us to mix match parts until we hack these systems and get some hardware to tune these PCM's
Remember when there were no tunes? No way to remove EGR, no way to correct a speedo, etc... now its childsplay with a android tablet and app
In time these systems will be hacked too........

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Posted: Wed Jun 3rd, 2020 05:02 pm

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Tsquare
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If memory serves the pro version of FORScan will allow a reprogram of the CPU mileage. I haven't messed with it in over 4 years so I might be wrong.

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Posted: Thu Jun 4th, 2020 06:15 pm

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Arthur
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So...
According to tech at local dealer they can't adjust mileage from ecm to cluster nor other way around. "Too easy for shady techs to fraud otherwise"
What about reflashing the ecm from auto to manual? "We don't have access to those things either."
Really? At Ford?

Meanwhile I got an answer from LasotaRacing and they can do it no problem...
But! there still might be trouble codes and even a CEL, although rarely.
Also $$

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2008 XLT 4x4 4.0 5Spd. Pretty much stock except 33's and Bilsteins: A bit broken for now.
2007 FX4 Level II auto: new project!

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410customs

Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2020 10:31 am

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Idahome

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dealers lost their "Magic" back in the 80's............... nobody at Ford wants you fixing up old Ford's they only want to put you in a brand spankin new 2021 model of some sort with 80 months of easy pays and 0 down with no payments for the first yadda yadda yadda
Try bringing in a carbed vehicle to a modern dealership to be repaired..... "cannot duplicate the problem, that will be $300" is all you will hear...

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mhoward

Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2020 11:10 am

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JAMMAN

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Another case of "because a few people abused something we all have to suffer" I could write a 50 page article about this.

It's why when we buy a bottle of tylenol we have to stand on the lid, use channel locks to remove the cap, then a large radial arm drill press to get through the special cover which never comes off the lip properly regardless. AND that's if we can remove the plastic from the outside of the box that the bottle is in and somehow defeat the Chinese puzzle of a box.

All because one sicko opened a bottle and put a couple drops of poison in it back in the 50's.

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