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LSD, no, the rear axle!!       #: 89
 Moderated by: NoPower, Mike69, MaDMaXX,
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 Posted: Thu Oct 26th, 2017 06:33 pm
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Working on my new truck today up at my mechanics shop, we got talking Rangers, particularly mine. Turns out, he's got an 8.8 LSD assembly I can get for $100!! Now, mine is an Edge, 2004, 4:10 open. This is a Ford unit, already set up, says all we have to do is switch ring gear if the one he has isn't a 4:10.What can you guys tell me regarding the change out. Seeing mine is a "one wheel peel", I'd like to do this.



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 Posted: Thu Oct 26th, 2017 09:50 pm
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I believe that right way to do it is to use either your current ("matched by wear pattern") ring/pinion combo or get the ("matched by wear pattern") ring/pinion along with the LSD carrier and install all these parts into your housing. Either way, I'd regard it as a situation where you're setting up a new ring/pinion relationship and treat it accordingly. With this in mind and if I were doing it, I'd hope that my current ring/pinion presented less wear than the "new to you" ring/pinion, thus (probably) getting you out of having to set pinion depth (I'm assuming you'd set the axle up yourself). You probably will do this anyway but I'll mention it, replacing the clutch pack will be a given unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise. My 3 cents.

Edit: Experience and life have taught me that the numerically higher an axle ratio is, that the more critical they are about being set up correctly if you don't want to hear them howl.

Last edited on Thu Oct 26th, 2017 09:54 pm by CBB9M



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 Posted: Thu Oct 26th, 2017 10:06 pm
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Seriously considering 4.56's myself.. Hey CBB9M, in doing such a thing I would assume that when in gear (manual trans) and using the gearing to say "walk" down a grade, the 4.56 over a 3.73 should actually slow the vehicle down some on its own naturally correct?

Seems like the Ranger has a fast pace no matter the angle of decent, or at least mine does. Any light to shine on that?



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 Posted: Fri Oct 27th, 2017 01:44 pm
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Too many variables. Weight, tire diameter, compression LOL. Impossible to shine a light.

4 wheel low slows it down!



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 Posted: Fri Oct 27th, 2017 02:26 pm
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CBB9M wrote: I believe that right way to do it is to use either your current ("matched by wear pattern") ring/pinion combo or get the ("matched by wear pattern") ring/pinion along with the LSD carrier and install all these parts into your housing. Either way, I'd regard it as a situation where you're setting up a new ring/pinion relationship and treat it accordingly. With this in mind and if I were doing it, I'd hope that my current ring/pinion presented less wear than the "new to you" ring/pinion, thus (probably) getting you out of having to set pinion depth (I'm assuming you'd set the axle up yourself). You probably will do this anyway but I'll mention it, replacing the clutch pack will be a given unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise. My 3 cents.

Edit: Experience and life have taught me that the numerically higher an axle ratio is, that the more critical they are about being set up correctly if you don't want to hear them howl.
Thanks Bill, that pretty much echos my thoughts. I know in the full size LSDaxle, we'd use throw some friction modifier in there as well. Yes, we plan on using my gears. I've driven this thing for 13 Michigan winters with an open diff, this going to be different!!



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 Posted: Fri Oct 27th, 2017 02:40 pm
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Wow, i'd love to fit LSD to my '02 Edge - 4.10 open doesn't seem like a great idea in the snow.

I'm guessing that what is actually involved in this upgrade is fairly extensive, as well as normally fairly expensive?



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 Posted: Fri Oct 27th, 2017 03:16 pm
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OK you said it is a "ford unit" already set up... is it out of a Ranger, and is it out of a 4.0 motor ranger.

With few exceptions, the 4.0 rangers had a 8.8 rear gear, the 3.0/2.5 had a 7.5. The 8.8 in the rangers was a 28 spline axle. If the 8.8 isn't out of a Ranger it is probably for 31 spline axles. The only Rangers with 31 spline axles were the 99 + 4.56 geared rear ends.

So if the LSD is out of an expo, F150 or Mustang the guts are set up for 31 spline and your axles will not fit.

Sorry if you already knew this no telling what someone knows.



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 Posted: Fri Oct 27th, 2017 06:46 pm
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I'm rubbing my magic Jeanie lamp in hopes of a multi-quote feature.. LOL

BTW
, even taking the time to cut and paste a multi quoted reply, it only will aloow for one (the last quoted section) to pass through to the board.. Just FYI.. haha


JAMMAN wrote:
OK you said it is a "ford unit" already set up... is it out of a Ranger, and is it out of a 4.0 motor ranger.

With few exceptions, the 4.0 rangers had a 8.8 rear gear, the 3.0/2.5 had a 7.5. The 8.8 in the rangers was a 28 spline axle. If the 8.8 isn't out of a Ranger it is probably for 31 spline axles. The only Rangers with 31 spline axles were the 99 + 4.56 geared rear ends.

So if the LSD is out of an expo, F150 or Mustang the guts are set up for 31 spline and your axles will not fit.

Sorry if you already knew this no telling what someone knows.

Is there REALLY a huge concern or difference as far as "known" NOT speculative by design theory anyway of failure points between 28-31 spline. Outside of the obvious noted by designs again in theory...

I really would like to do an in-depth article. I only ask because myself? I've never seen anyone tear up either of these options up but then again I would imagine in the extreme sense of things, its not only possible but plausible. I'm a bit hard on my truck sometimes but I don't go out to break it, if it happens it happens and I've done some dumb   for sure.

I mean if its more of an advantage of say "bullet" proofing the drivetrain.. ok.. now I get it. But people seem to talk about the subject as though ONLY the 31 spline could handle a blast from a roadside IED and your weak 28 spline would be blah blah blah..

:crazy

Last edited on Fri Oct 27th, 2017 06:49 pm by Undrstm8ed



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"The slave is held most securely when he is held by the chains of his own will and of his own fears, and when he is locked down by his own slavish desires for a comfortable life." - Michael Bunker

"Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur" - ~ attributed to Petronius (Gaius Petronius Arbiter (ca. 27–66 AD))
Roman courtier during the reign of Nero.

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." - Thomas Paine


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 Posted: Sat Oct 28th, 2017 08:58 am
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johnday
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JAMMAN wrote: OK you said it is a "ford unit" already set up... is it out of a Ranger, and is it out of a 4.0 motor ranger.

With few exceptions, the 4.0 rangers had a 8.8 rear gear, the 3.0/2.5 had a 7.5. The 8.8 in the rangers was a 28 spline axle. If the 8.8 isn't out of a Ranger it is probably for 31 spline axles. The only Rangers with 31 spline axles were the 99 + 4.56 geared rear ends.

So if the LSD is out of an expo, F150 or Mustang the guts are set up for 31 spline and your axles will not fit.

Sorry if you already knew this no telling what someone knows.
Mine is an '04 Edge, tag on the door says it's an 8.8 [per code], and he says it's out of an '02 Ranger, so, it looks like it's ago?Don't worry about what I might know, I forget a lot of things!!!!:cheers



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 Posted: Sat Oct 28th, 2017 09:03 am
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MaDMaXX wrote: Wow, i'd love to fit LSD to my '02 Edge - 4.10 open doesn't seem like a great idea in the snow.

I'm guessing that what is actually involved in this upgrade is fairly extensive, as well as normally fairly expensive?
LOL, I was born, raised, and lived in snow country my entire life. A little weight, 350# +/-, good tires, DuraTracs, experience, 50 years, and know how to handle ice/snow, you'd be surprised what you can you do.:cheers



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 Posted: Sat Oct 28th, 2017 09:52 am
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johnday wrote: MaDMaXX wrote: Wow, i'd love to fit LSD to my '02 Edge - 4.10 open doesn't seem like a great idea in the snow.

I'm guessing that what is actually involved in this upgrade is fairly extensive, as well as normally fairly expensive?
LOL, I was born, raised, and lived in snow country my entire life. A little weight, 350# +/-, good tires, DuraTracs, experience, 50 years, and know how to handle ice/snow, you'd be surprised what you can you do.:cheers


I have noticed this about drivers... having spent most of my life in Michigan when it snows a little down here (Columbus Ohio) I get extra road rage at people who feel they have to drive 4MPH because there is a little snow. When I lived in Petoskey you never really saw the pavement in winter they just plow a trail in the snow and you are always driving on snow.

Now what is HILARIOUS is when I went from Petoskey to Andersonville SC for a couple years. They just shut everything down when it snows the 1/2 inch they get and it lasts about 12 hours. You would think it was world war 3 and they were north Korea.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 28th, 2017 11:23 am
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Undrstm8ed wrote: .. Hey CBB9M, in doing such a thing I would assume that when in gear (manual trans) and using the gearing to say "walk" down a grade, the 4.56 over a 3.73 should actually slow the vehicle down some on its own naturally correct?

Compression braking, same result as shifting down a gear or two.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 28th, 2017 11:26 am
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johnday wrote: Thanks Bill, that pretty much echos my thoughts. I know in the full size LSDaxle, we'd use throw some friction modifier in there as well. Yes, we plan on using my gears. I've driven this thing for 13 Michigan winters with an open diff, this going to be different!!

Like for example, if you're not paying attention and you are giving it a bit of gas on an icy corner, the arse end is now more vulnerable to trying to wrap itself around the front end. Of course in these parts where just about everyone has 4X, most people probably don't realize that posi can have an unintended side effect. :eek:

Last edited on Sat Oct 28th, 2017 11:26 am by CBB9M



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 Posted: Sat Oct 28th, 2017 03:51 pm
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JAMMAN wrote
I have noticed this about drivers... having spent most of my life in Michigan when it snows a little down here (Columbus Ohio) I get extra road rage at people who feel they have to drive 4MPH because there is a little snow. When I lived in Petoskey you never really saw the pavement in winter they just plow a trail in the snow and you are always driving on snow.
Petoskey can really get whacked being right on the lake. I'm on the other side of the state and a little south of there. Most of the heavy stuff is usually about 15 miles north of me, but I drove up north every day for 6 years, across the "yooper" into Ontario, For some silly reason, I won't miss that this season!:cheers



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CBB9M wrote: johnday wrote:

Like for example, if you're not paying attention and you are giving it a bit of gas on an icy corner, the arse end is now more vulnerable to trying to wrap itself around the front end. Of course in these parts where just about everyone has 4X, most people probably don't realize that posi can have an unintended side effect. :eek:
Oh yes it can, it can also get you side ways from a dead dig, especially if you're on a slope.



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Agreed.. I even can state the same thing for being 2WD and going where some of the bigger and 4WD trucks go.. Ground clearance, right tires, the right driver, experience behind the wheel and the pedals, and a will to succeed at the tasks laid before you..

No problemo..



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"Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur" - ~ attributed to Petronius (Gaius Petronius Arbiter (ca. 27–66 AD))
Roman courtier during the reign of Nero.

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Undrstm8ed wrote: Agreed.. I even can state the same thing for being 2WD and going where some of the bigger and 4WD trucks go.. Ground clearance, right tires, the right driver, experience behind the wheel and the pedals, and a will to succeed at the tasks laid before you..

No problemo..
Exactly!!!:cheers



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Got the LSD installed yesterday, and played with it a bit on a dirt road, yep, it works. Also replaced the carrier bearings/races, and axle seals. Also learned about backlash, and how it's adjusted, and just exactly what it does, for some reason I never made any sense on that before.Not really overly anxious for snow, but it will be interesting as to how much of an improvement it will be. Never really had a problem with one wheel drive, but this does increase my confidence a little.:cheers



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Nice, glad it's all done.



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JAMMAN wrote: OK you said it is a "ford unit" already set up... is it out of a Ranger, and is it out of a 4.0 motor ranger.

With few exceptions, the 4.0 rangers had a 8.8 rear gear, the 3.0/2.5 had a 7.5. The 8.8 in the rangers was a 28 spline axle. If the 8.8 isn't out of a Ranger it is probably for 31 spline axles. The only Rangers with 31 spline axles were the 99 + 4.56 geared rear ends.

So if the LSD is out of an expo, F150 or Mustang the guts are set up for 31 spline and your axles will not fit.

Sorry if you already knew this no telling what someone knows.

I have a 2003 EDGE 3.0L model.  I pulled my build sheet off of the etis.com site.  I noticed it stated an 8.8" 4:10 axle (open diff, unfortunately).  My son didn't believe that, so he went out and crawled under the truck.  Sure enough, it is 8.8 with 4:10 gears.  I had a 2001 EDGE with 4.0L, but I don't know what axle it had.  Anyway, there is one exception...



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