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Anyone in SoCal doing the 5.0L Swap... ?
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 Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2018 05:13 pm
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Scrambler82
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Hello to all Reading this Post !
I live in SoCal and wanted to put a rebuilt 5.0L in my Ranger but listening more than asking, I wondered how I would "get away with it ", emissions and all.
Back in MA there was no problems getting a DMV Sticker, know someone and bam you get one but in SoCal, everyone I have approached has put me off.
Any comments please post anything !

My first alternative is sell the hefty 5.0L and buy the new Cummin's Crate Diesels, R2.8L, with paperwork but try and get any information out of Cummins about certification in California is like pulling your eye teeth yourself.
Since I have made up my mind that I will not be driving another Ford Ranger or Bronco, I need to starting looking in earnest to find the information I need to get this done.  I wish Ford had put a V-8 in the Rangers, must have been too much strain on the F-150 sales.

When did Ford stop using the 5.0L anyway ?

Thx / Ltr



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
Large Tube Rear Axle, 31 Spline - FX4, 4.56 Gears, OX Locked
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15" BFG ATs,
Hurst Shifter w/Longer Replacement Shift Handle with (Homemade) Mounting Adapter; 1.5" up x 1" back.
Backrack mod'd to fit Steppie, Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2018 06:19 pm
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The basic rule seems to be twofold. First, the donor engine must be of the same year or newer compared to the project vehicle and be certified to meet California emission regs for the donor year. Second, ALL emission equipment that was associated with the replacement engine must be included with the swap. 

It should go without saying that the finished vehicle must pass a state emission inspection at any time. In addition to the ordinary emission inspection, there is a special inspection process and sticker that go with engine swaps. So trying to bypass the system is not likely to happen.


Any "speed parts" would need to be on the ARB exemption list and only a very small percentage are. 

Last year for a pushrod 5.0 in a production vehicle was 2001 Explorer. 


So, right out of the gate, you're in trouble because you can't buy a production 5.0 that's new enough to go into your 2003 Ranger. I don't know if there is a waiver procedure for that situation but, even if it does exist, the process would probably be so convoluted and expensive as to make it totally impractical.


Sorry :?



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2003 FX4 Level II, Supercharged 5.0L V8, Headers, Duals, BW4406 manual T/C
Aussie Locker, Torsen L/S, 4.10's, Bilstein 7100 rezzies, Cadillac/Mustang rear discs, Duff traction bars
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 Posted: Fri Jan 26th, 2018 07:49 am
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^^^ Totally accurate in the "legalities" aspects within the State of California.

However, and I may personally catch some flack about this but its just my personal opinion. But if you are already rocking the SOHC 4.0L in your truck. My argument would be you're going to go through all the trouble to add 5Hp /48ft lbs tq, which 1/2 of which would be wasted on the additional 40-60lbs more weight in an effort to say you have a V8 under the hood?

The max Tq comes in at 3300 RPM's (over the SOHC 240ft lbs tq at 3250 (meant for lighter towing)), fine I guess if again your towing but then its only 48 more foot lbs.. It's not meant to be a 1/4 mile qualifier and I've seen vehicles double and triple their power outputs with the end results being a time monitored inevitability of pulling the vehicle apart or the constant repairing. Ask any Fox body Mustang owner with some serious power under the hood about windshield pillars, they'll tell ya.

With a good knowledge base of performance, suspension, gearing, with tuning, among your personal attributes towards the aesthetics of the vehicle that may affect said performance enhancements. I as usual would push for the intent of the vehicle. What are you after? This could stem from uniqueness to whatever.

If its Tq and gear/RPM placement of it you're after, the Cummins 2.8R will certainly deliver. That engine makes more peak torque (267 lb-ft) as the current 4G 4.0V6 (240 ft-lb) in the Ranger except it does it at 1400-2500rpm instead of 3300rpm. Meaning this engine is more powerful than the current and powerful engine available in a Ranger in the RPM range most people drive most often.

If you don't, that's fine but most people don't ride around at 5400rpm. Ok, so my Oldest Son does but he's got a worked over Miata and thinks hes the new drift king of South East Michigan.. So I will agree, the foot to the floor acceleration will not be anything amazing but that's just a trade-off for many other benefits. It doesnt take a lot to wake up a Cummins engine at all.
The 4BTa has for example a 130hp engine (out of 3 trim levels) with 320 ft lbs of tq at a workable range of 1200-2000 rpm.

Even by then your fuel costs will be more even if you just babied it at EPA testing speeds to get the sticker MPG quoted, doesn't help the argument that the 5.0L already gets 2-3 MPG less than your SOHC now; even with swinging that re-butle to a "I don't care about the gas prices" then stick those cost variables into your better engine decision slush fund and get something with the purpose and function you need.

That and the Cummins motor will be an emissions compliant package for California. That and the Erod I think are the only legal crate engine options. And unless where performance over the penalty of weight or the key is fuel economy, reliability and maintenance cost may be the only reason to NOT go diesel in some sentiments.

There is NO have your cake and eat it too.. Everything has trade offs, its whats most important to you.



On a further note, I think I can go on record to state that California has plans to move as MANY people out of their vehicles within the next 10 years as possible. This is why you see the ridiculous expansions in work where you live mentalities, cost of fuel ($ .42 more gas tax hike), a $25-147 increase in Registration fees, Roads and streets being heavily re-appropriated in favor of bike lanes and green-ways, the increase in fines for policy enforcement, the speaks of turning the 10 fwy into a toll road, etc..

There are countless videos and comments from State representatives and bureaucrats and even heavy lobbying for all of the above and more available admitting they want you out of your cars; and if you think its all nonsense and and on the eves of conspiracy, Rather than sit on the couch at home watching TV or nothing at all, show up to some of your local and county meetings and see whats being said and done by SCAG and other organizations. Your thoughts will change on their own.

So even if you get the V8 in there to spite the state of Kalifornistan.. it may not be enjoyable for long. who knows

Last edited on Fri Jan 26th, 2018 07:54 am by Undrstm8ed



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 Posted: Fri Jan 26th, 2018 05:31 pm
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I don't have a 4.0L, and from experience the 4.0 get worse milage than I now get ! My 5.0L / '88 Ranger get avg 22 mpg, so that was better than the 2.9 is replaced and I would think the 5.0L I now have, mod'd for more low end torque and should get decent mpg, I am hoping for better than any of the V-6s.

As to Cali and the coming changes, es it will be interesting, we will have to see where it goes because there isn't much the general public can do except TRY to vote for no change !

thanks for the postings.



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
Large Tube Rear Axle, 31 Spline - FX4, 4.56 Gears, OX Locked
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15" BFG ATs,
Hurst Shifter w/Longer Replacement Shift Handle with (Homemade) Mounting Adapter; 1.5" up x 1" back.
Backrack mod'd to fit Steppie, Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Sat Jan 27th, 2018 01:57 am
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The MPG listed the 5.0L Explorer at 18MPG the 4.0L both 2wd/4wd were quoted as 20MPG and although not all information is possibly true, current, or not misleading and or manipulated in some way. I find that Edmunds may not be 100% accurate.

Although the HP may be more on the SOHC version 4.0L I do find it possible that even at 20MPG dragging a Explorer carcass around, 2 more miles per gal would seem easily obtainable in something almost a 1/4 less in weight - Therefore showing an improvement in power to weight factors lending to MPG.

My lesser and slightly under powered 93 4.0L OHV has gotten mid to higher ends of 22.4-22.9 MPG on a few occasions. But not at any time I was driving it to enjoy it or just enjoying it. Especially taking the canyons (Ortega Hwy California) to go from Riverside to Lower OC to visit family and friends... Man those RT615ks gripped good.. sometimes I had really needed it!

The 4.0L OHV is basically a stroked out 2.9L Nothing too fancy, just ended up being a better engine than the 2.9L original design.
My assumption was you were already running a 4.0L...



____________________
"Be never first, never last and never noticed." - Unknown

"The slave is held most securely when he is held by the chains of his own will and of his own fears, and when he is locked down by his own slavish desires for a comfortable life." - Michael Bunker

"Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur" - ~ attributed to Petronius (Gaius Petronius Arbiter (ca. 27–66 AD))
Roman courtier during the reign of Nero.

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." - Thomas Paine


~ Undrstm8ed Truckumentry Write Up Pg.

~ Undrstm8ed Trailermentry Write Up Pg.
.
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 Posted: Fri Feb 2nd, 2018 08:07 am
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Up until Ford came out with the NEW Ranger... or what ever it should be called and the possibility of the NEW Bronco looking like the NEW Ranger... I was all set to be an new Ford OWNER !
BUT as we know things change and as far as I am concerned Ford screwed up !
So if I cant get this Ranger to where I want it I may become a Toyota Owner and I am thinking all of this will not mean anything !

Thanks to anyone who posted !



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
Large Tube Rear Axle, 31 Spline - FX4, 4.56 Gears, OX Locked
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15" BFG ATs,
Hurst Shifter w/Longer Replacement Shift Handle with (Homemade) Mounting Adapter; 1.5" up x 1" back.
Backrack mod'd to fit Steppie, Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Sun May 6th, 2018 02:56 pm
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Ford never put the 5.0 in the Ranger simply because in 98-01 they could not pass America's stringent weight to safety ratio the 5.0 would have put the ranger in a new class and the safety features would have needed re design

Also the 4.0L SOHC was the engine both teh Gen II and 98+ Ranger was designed to accept
The 4.0L SOHC is a great engine....if you like nylon timing chain guides and hydraulic tensioners
I don't

My 2014 and 2015 Polaris Ranger use the exact same Cloyes hydraulic cam tensioner as the SOHC and guess what..................tick tick tick tick at startup
so the first addition to the rzr was a Sparks racing manual timing chain tensioner....no more tick
If I ever owned a SOHC I would consider a pair of these

The SOHC 4.0 is a GOOD engine, but not great... they are tough! People fail to run synthetic in them and they fail to change it often enough. Also they fail to replace teh upper tensioners at 90K miles like Ford recommends....otherwise the 99+ SOHC 4.0 can get 220-260K miles without issue (97=98 need help first)
Most SOHC 4.0 dies WELL BEFORE that

I love the pushrod OHV 4.0, have one in my fleet in 387K on it and just passed Colorado emissions in 2017

The best thing about the 302 is the transmission choices
Also you can make a ton more power from a SBF with just some bolt ons.. not so true with the SOHC

Yes a 5 speed 302 with OBD2 can be done, the explorer PCM just requires some simple programming to remove the trans functions the M5OD that came behind the 4.2 is a good fit in a Ranger (shhhhhhhhh)



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 Posted: Sun May 6th, 2018 04:32 pm
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410custm,
Thanks for the info !
A 4.0 is out, just as well keep the 3.0 Slow.
I have a 5.0L, but I can't seem to get an info on keeping a head of the Emission Test.
I got one number from a Member hurter, of a guy that may have been able to help, but he never returned his calls.
So I am up un the air with this one.

My fist thought a couple of years ago when Cummins introduced their Crate Motor Project, was to get one of their 2.8L Turbo Diesels, with a complete smog package for California, CA didn't approve the engine for anything above '99; more of an off-road approval, which was basically already inlace.

So here I sit on a nice 5.0L, no trans, wanting an a six-speed automatic, and no one I can find is willing to assist.

Do you know what is a good six-speed Automatic that will work behind a 5.0L and work with an Atlas II - T/C, and fit the Ranger ?
IF I get some way to make the 5.0L happen I want a newer auto, getting older and want the 5-sp to go away !

Thanks to you for your knowledge and to anyone that posted... !



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
Large Tube Rear Axle, 31 Spline - FX4, 4.56 Gears, OX Locked
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15" BFG ATs,
Hurst Shifter w/Longer Replacement Shift Handle with (Homemade) Mounting Adapter; 1.5" up x 1" back.
Backrack mod'd to fit Steppie, Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Thu May 10th, 2018 02:48 pm
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Hmmmmm the 302 bellhousing will only bolt to a few automatics

If anyone has the answer to this is will be my buddy Brett I will ask him. I know we can use the 5r55s automatic behind our OHV and SOHC V6's, paddle shift it with an aftermarket controller....but not with a SBF?

The 4r70w is about your best auto to go behind that but it is not a 6 speed, neither is the 5r55

The t case is not the issue, Atlas is avail for both the 5 and 6 bolt Ford tail housings so it can fit any 4wd transmission we choose.

the cummins re power is a joke for us, it is basically meant to repower old Landcruisers and Jeeps, replacing weak 4 bangers. We sawa the Cummins 2.8 at Sema and when we asked the Cummins reps about "larger turbo" they skoffed at us...not the purpose of the 2.8
Also not emissions friendly for your OBDII truck as you are finding out. So the BT4 is still a better conversion with all of its aftermarket support.

I was same as you, found the new Cummins 2.8 and figured it would make its way into my wifes FJ....well not yet. Cummins did not intend it to be used that way so we will have to wait for the aftermarket to come to our rescue.
I was appauled by their response at Sema, seriously we cannot be the first ones to ask if it can make more power easily (IE LARGER TURBO!!!!!!!) I would think thats the first question anyone would ask!
I do drool all over the International Scout that received Cummins 2.8 #1 its super nice and an era correct restomod



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 Posted: Thu May 10th, 2018 02:53 pm
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I can do 5.0 with a 3 speed C4/C5, AOD, or AODE-w (4r70w) and there are plenty of options for an upgraded 4r70w but to find a 5 speed or 6 speed auto to bolt up to the windsor AND be 4wd?....I don't think so but we know enough these days that a "no" can usually be turned into a "yes" with enough time and $$$$$$$$$$$$

There may be a way to put this behind the 5.0 and then convert the tailhousing to be 4wd...let me ask my buddy the expert

http://www.mustangandfords.com/project-vehicles/mmfp-1105-tci-6x-six-speed-automatic-transmission/
The TCI 6X is based off of the GM 4L80E

Last edited on Thu May 10th, 2018 02:53 pm by 410customs



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 Posted: Sat Apr 6th, 2019 01:15 am
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ok on the 4r70w... the big question is... is it any good ?

I'm guessing the the 4 speed OD is as good as any 5 speed OD when backed by a 5.0L built or otherwise.

410customs wrote:
There may be a way to put this behind the 5.0 and then convert the tailhousing to be 4wd...let me ask my buddy the expert

http://www.mustangandfords.com/project-vehicles/mmfp-1105-tci-6x-six-speed-automatic-transmission/
The TCI 6X is based off of the GM 4L80E

First any word from the expert ?

Next... looked at the TCI 6X Trans Setup for the SBF, pricey but something to think on; at least it can be done, and it would bring the little ranger with a 5.0L into the next level of transportation.


Thanks

Last edited on Sat Apr 6th, 2019 05:21 pm by Scrambler82



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
Large Tube Rear Axle, 31 Spline - FX4, 4.56 Gears, OX Locked
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15" BFG ATs,
Hurst Shifter w/Longer Replacement Shift Handle with (Homemade) Mounting Adapter; 1.5" up x 1" back.
Backrack mod'd to fit Steppie, Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 02:49 am
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410customs wrote:
Ford never put the 5.0 in the Ranger simply because in 98-01 they could not pass America's stringent weight to safety ratio the 5.0 would have put the ranger in a new class and the safety features would have needed re design
Was just re-reading your post, "Weight to Safety Ratio"... think on that in today's standards, it would be a baby step compared to 700 HP and up vehicle that are out there now ! 

As I always say, "If I meet the '03 emissions standard of the OEM Ranger it should be good to go" !

Ltr



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
Large Tube Rear Axle, 31 Spline - FX4, 4.56 Gears, OX Locked
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15" BFG ATs,
Hurst Shifter w/Longer Replacement Shift Handle with (Homemade) Mounting Adapter; 1.5" up x 1" back.
Backrack mod'd to fit Steppie, Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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