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Troubleshooting a super rough idle at start up + random stumbling when warm       #: 2665
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 Posted: Mon Jul 17th, 2023 03:13 am
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aroundincircles
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This has been going on for a while, but I was in the middle of moving, and couldn't deal with it myself, as I was basically homeless with tools in storage, so I took it to a shop who said I had a vacuum leak and they replaced a plenum gasket, and that didn't fix it so I took it to a different shop (the previous shop told me to shove it when I tried to take it back to them) who said the previous shop had screwed up my spark plugs and that I probably had a leaking head gasket. 

The plan is to do a compression test, since I'm not loosing any noticeable amount of coolant, I pulled the spark plugs tonight, tried to get my compression tester on there, but none of the adapters fit, I'll have to figure that part out tomorrow, but here is a picture of the plugs for your viewing pleasure. If you can gather any information from then I would love to hear it.

Attachment: unnamed (2).jpg (Downloaded 32 times)



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 Posted: Mon Jul 17th, 2023 01:06 pm
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I'd put the engine on a gas analyser - the plugs look like it may be running too lean.

Check the gap too!



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 Posted: Mon Jul 17th, 2023 08:50 pm
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It has new-ish fuel injectors, so maybe a vacuum leak? that's what the one shop said, But I've put 1000+ miles on it since they "fixed" it. Here is a video with each cylinder how it looks now that I've pulled the plugs:
https://youtu.be/KtiudzSbEK4



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 Posted: Mon Jul 17th, 2023 10:17 pm
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Could be an air leak on the induction side but the two "wet" cylinders maybe dirty injectors if fuel or is it oil? If water then head gasket.



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 Posted: Mon Jul 17th, 2023 10:31 pm
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Those injectors are less than 2 years and 5k miles old. I paid for a shop to replace them at the time I simply didn't have time to do it myself. I wonder if one of them is leaking... I need to figure out how to test them I guess.



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 Posted: Wed Jul 19th, 2023 04:46 am
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Got the chance to do my compression test. Got the compression test done:
3: 150 6: 130
2: 130 4: 118
1: 145 4: 130

So driver's side is a bit lower than passenger, but it's not super out of spec is it? that 118 has me worried. I also saw this on injector one:




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 Posted: Wed Jul 19th, 2023 08:42 am
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Do a wet compression test as well - use an oil can to put a little oil round the edge of the piston to seal the rings.

Is that a crack by injector 1 or a casting mark? What is the whiteish substance?



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 Posted: Wed Jul 19th, 2023 02:50 pm
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I don't know what the white stuff is. These are supposed to all be "new" in that they were replaced in the last couple of years at a shop (had one go bad on me, had them all replaced) 

what would cause an oily piston? 

I can do a wet test, but do I just pour oil into a funnel into each one, like a half oz or so?



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 Posted: Wed Jul 19th, 2023 03:28 pm
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Just a small amount of oil - maybe a teaspoonful, three teaspoons = 1/2oz  - I use a pump oil can to just get the oil round the edge of the piston - too much in there affects the reading - just enough to seal the rings.

Oily piston is usually a sign of poorly sealing piston rings, either broken or stuck in the grooves - if the oil control ring is at fault then oil can be pumped up into the cylinder. The alternative source is worn valve guides allowing oil to be sucked into the inlet tract.



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 Posted: Wed Jul 19th, 2023 10:14 pm
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Dang that looks like they tried to use some sort of sealer around that injector.



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 Posted: Fri Aug 4th, 2023 08:24 pm
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I threw in the towel, took it to a shop. Stupid fuel pump needed to be replaced. At least I had them keep it there for two extra days to test it starting up before I picked it up. and they said each time it started up with 0 issues. we'll see tomorrow I guess.



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Id say either Left bank has a tear in the head gasket on # 5 or with all of the cylinders low/lower, if its a 3.0L its likely a cracked head.  They're not super expensive in the new castings with the better valve seats, and I can only guess without hands on myself but, usually that's been the case is a fine hairline crack and its caused a tear in the gasket.

Just had a similar situation with a customer/family members 3.0L, just opposite side, # 2 cylinder. I think he was at 112 with opposing 143 and 138 if i recall.  Doesnt mean I am absolutely right, I could be a football field off.  But it is rather ironic same symptoms, could be same problem.


Clear crack shown on #2 cylinder


And it went through the water jacket chamber.. which soaked the gasket, one day it just said "nahhh"


New heads (Pair), NO cores as they are new, with Stainless Steel valves and valve seats, assembled (Stage I setup)..  https://www.12degnorth.com/product-page/heavy-duty-cylinder-heads-ford-3-0l-ohv-v6-1  if 4.0L.. https://www.12degnorth.com/product-page/heavy-duty-cylinder-heads-ford-4-0l-ohv-sohc-v6



The 3.0L heads are known to crack rather easily, especially if North of 200k miles on top of the fact the exhaust valves and valve seats themselves are complete crap.



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 Posted: Tue Aug 15th, 2023 02:13 pm
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12° North Industries wrote:
Id say either Left bank has a tear in the head gasket on # 5 or with all of the cylinders low/lower, if its a 3.0L its likely a cracked head.  They're not super expensive in the new castings with the better valve seats, and I can only guess without hands on myself but, usually that's been the case is a fine hairline crack and its caused a tear in the gasket.

Just had a similar situation with a customer/family members 3.0L, just opposite side, # 2 cylinder. I think he was at 112 with opposing 143 and 138 if i recall.  Doesnt mean I am absolutely right, I could be a football field off.  But it is rather ironic same symptoms, could be same problem.


Clear crack shown on #2 cylinder


And it went through the water jacket chamber.. which soaked the gasket, one day it just said "nahhh"


New heads (Pair), NO cores as they are new, with Stainless Steel valves and valve seats, assembled (Stage I setup)..  https://www.12degnorth.com/product-page/heavy-duty-cylinder-heads-ford-3-0l-ohv-v6-1  if 4.0L.. https://www.12degnorth.com/product-page/heavy-duty-cylinder-heads-ford-4-0l-ohv-sohc-v6



The 3.0L heads are known to crack rather easily, especially if North of 200k miles on top of the fact the exhaust valves and valve seats themselves are complete crap.

It's a 98 B4000, so it's the 4.0, not a 3.0 and it has 112k miles on it. it's lead a hard life. I push it probably too hard. I've moved and now own a small farm, and I could really stand a full size truck... but use this like one.



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 Posted: Tue Aug 15th, 2023 08:17 pm
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What did the spark plugs look like? It could have a cracked head if it is a 4.0 OHV also. My 2000 4.0 OHV had cracked heads which I replaced with new castings.



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aroundincircles wrote:
12° North Industries wrote:

Id say either Left bank has a tear in the head gasket on # 5 or with all of the cylinders low/lower, if its a 3.0L its likely a cracked head.  They're not super expensive in the new castings with the better valve seats, and I can only guess without hands on myself but, usually that's been the case is a fine hairline crack and its caused a tear in the gasket.

Just had a similar situation with a customer/family members 3.0L, just opposite side, # 2 cylinder. I think he was at 112 with opposing 143 and 138 if i recall.  Doesnt mean I am absolutely right, I could be a football field off.  But it is rather ironic same symptoms, could be same problem.


Clear crack shown on #2 cylinder


And it went through the water jacket chamber.. which soaked the gasket, one day it just said "nahhh"


New heads (Pair), NO cores as they are new, with Stainless Steel valves and valve seats, assembled (Stage I setup)..  https://www.12degnorth.com/product-page/heavy-duty-cylinder-heads-ford-3-0l-ohv-v6-1  if 4.0L.. https://www.12degnorth.com/product-page/heavy-duty-cylinder-heads-ford-4-0l-ohv-sohc-v6



The 3.0L heads are known to crack rather easily, especially if North of 200k miles on top of the fact the exhaust valves and valve seats themselves are complete crap.

It's a 98 B4000, so it's the 4.0, not a 3.0 and it has 112k miles on it. it's lead a hard life. I push it probably too hard. I've moved and now own a small farm, and I could really stand a full size truck... but use this like one.

My mistake, I thought you said it was 3.0L to start, my apologies.

Both are similar OHV designs and had similar issues. And 112k isn't a lot of miles in my definition but it is an earlier 90's Ford product.  I've seen first hand how short of a life a Ford Product has in the snow-belt.

I usually like to use @Undertm8ed earlier '93 Ranger w/4.0L OHV for a good example, that rig had 362K on the clock  the last time we saw the truck out of storage and most of that was offroad mileage, he lives in a bit of a more remote place here in Nevada now so not sure where the mileage is at now or if it's still be driven like it thinks its a Honda HB.

I would say unfortunately the next step would be to pull heads and take a physical inspection but if its your daily grinder and work vehicle, and you find out the heads are relatively done for, that could be a 1-2 week turn around not afforded to most people right now to deal with.

Hopefully you can get a quick resolve..



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 Posted: Sat Aug 19th, 2023 05:46 pm
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12° North Industries wrote:
My mistake, I thought you said it was 3.0L to start, my apologies.

Both are similar OHV designs and had similar issues. And 112k isn't a lot of miles in my definition but it is an earlier 90's Ford product.  I've seen first hand how short of a life a Ford Product has in the snow-belt.

I usually like to use @Undertm8ed earlier '93 Ranger w/4.0L OHV for a good example, that rig had 362K on the clock  the last time we saw the truck out of storage and most of that was offroad mileage, he lives in a bit of a more remote place here in Nevada now so not sure where the mileage is at now or if it's still be driven like it thinks its a Honda HB.

I would say unfortunately the next step would be to pull heads and take a physical inspection but if its your daily grinder and work vehicle, and you find out the heads are relatively done for, that could be a 1-2 week turn around not afforded to most people right now to deal with.

Hopefully you can get a quick resolve..

Honestly? I work from home and have 3 other vehicles that get driven most of the time (big family hauler, fuel efficient car, backup SUV that can haul most of the family), so the truck only really gets used to take stuff to the dump, pick up stuff from the hardware store, and take my shooting gear out to the desert when I want a day of fun plinking. my wife is a SAHM so also doesn't drive much. at this point, I usually put maybe 1000-2000 miles a year MAX on my truck some years it has been driven closer to 500 miles. I'll just drive it till the engine blows, it isn't worth it to put much money into it. maybe if the engine blows I'll v8 swap it like I've been wanting to do anyways. 

After the fuel pump replacement it's running great again, like nothing was amiss.



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You said in an earlier post you replaced the plenum gasket, did you replace the intake gasket too? I had a rough idle when the weather was cold & it turned out to be a bad intake gasket.



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Hey guys - he said back in post number 11 that it was fuel pump needed replacing ....



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 Posted: Sun Aug 20th, 2023 10:36 pm
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chris wrote:
Hey guys - he said back in post number 11 that it was fuel pump needed replacing ....
LOL, I was wondering how many times i needed to repeat myself. It's running great right now. Could it have other issues? sure. but today, it's running great, and I'm not going to worry about it. I drove it 130 miles last night and 200 miles the weekend after the fuel pump was replaced, I even got close to 20mpg on those trips (better MPG than I've seen in a hot minute).



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