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5.0 in a 2000 coil spring project
 Moderated by: MaDMaXX, Mike69, NoPower Page:    1  2  3  Next Page Last Page  
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 Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2017 09:40 pm
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JAMMAN

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This has been a 2 year project thus far, here is what I started with:





Been a long ride on this one but I got exactly what I wanted... a 2WD 2000 short bed single cab with dark gray interior outside amazon green metallic. Been looking since about 2000.

The donor: 1997 mountaineer with a terrific running motor. Got it in Michigan for 500 bucks:





Pulled the partially disassembled 2.5:





This is what it looked like empty:




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00 XLT 4WD RCSB 3.GO! Jalapeño
"I'm thinking about buying a horse eventually, I'll take half a dozen carts please"
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 Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2017 05:05 pm
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Well brotha just joined . Need to get me a build thread goin now . This is atx (mike ) from the other forums . Nice progress so far



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 Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2017 06:48 pm
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JAMMAN

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Thanks for joining Mike, glad to have you here!



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00 XLT 4WD RCSB 3.GO! Jalapeño
"I'm thinking about buying a horse eventually, I'll take half a dozen carts please"
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 Posted: Thu Dec 28th, 2017 01:13 am
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JAMMAN

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I just happened to find a guy with an upper and lower intake off a 2000.

Why would I be interested you ask?

Well if I use his injectors and rails which should bolt right on my 97 motor, they are returnless and use the higher pressure MEANING I wouldn't have to drop the tank, take the regulator out and run a return line from the front to the back.

SOOO make up my mind for me. He wants 200 OBO, it has the plastic cover for the throttle cable assembly that is missing on mine also.

So my choices are:
Use what I have, drop the gas tank, get the fuel pump out, remove the regulator. Run a fuel line from the engine back to the fuel filter where I can attach to an existing return to the tank.
Put the tank back up, hope that I don't bust filler tube or straps.

OR give the guy 150 or so, take the injectors and rails off, put them on my motor and just connect the fuel line that is already there. Plus have some parts to polish up for the next project.



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 Posted: Thu Dec 28th, 2017 03:52 am
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Why not just buy new injectors... better in the long run,
If pressure is a problem add a regulator and separate return line if needed.
Usually there are a few Explorers in the JY, so the parts you need should be available.

Sometimes removing the Gas Tank can find a few additional problems, rusty straps, rusted tank and leaks, so an alternative is to remove the bed, believe me it may be easier !
Bed Bolts, Gas Filler Screws, Gas Tank Fill Tube, and some wires.
Take it off !

Also removing the bed allows for cleaning up under the bed, the frame, and to check out the frame for rust through !



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 Posted: Thu Dec 28th, 2017 10:30 am
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JAMMAN

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The fuel rails from 98 to 2000 (and the few 2001's with a 5.0 and not a 4.6) just had the one connection, the 97 had input and output. I could put the injectors in but without the rails it would be another mess.

Yes I'm dreading dropping the tank LOL



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 Posted: Thu Dec 28th, 2017 03:20 pm
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OR give the guy 150 or so, take the injectors and rails off, put them on my motor and just connect the fuel line that is already there. 

It's not quite that simple. 

The change in injectors and fuel pressure require a different PCM (calibration code EQE1, 2 or 3). Not sure but the injectors MAY require a different style electrical connector as well.

Also, the 97 Intake Air Temp sensor was in a different location and the EGR was plumbed differently.

So, to do a purely bolt-on installation using the 99~01 stuff, you'd need more than just injectors and rails. Probably engine and transmission harnesses, MAF assembly, EGR parts, PS exhaust manifold, air cleaner box, etc., etc. 

To make things worse, the 97 4R70W transmission is different from the 99~01 and requires different wiring and controls. You would need to account for that if you opt to use the 99~01 PCM and harnesses. 

That's what I can think of off the top of my head. There are probably other "gotchas".

IMO, that makes pulling the bed and tank unit sound a lot easier.



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 Posted: Thu Dec 28th, 2017 04:49 pm
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JAMMAN

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Well balls lol.

I have a 96 4r70w and a 97 PCM (thought it was an ECM) please don't tell me the 96 was different than the 97, all I really checked was the harnesses and they were identical AND in fact connected.



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"I'm thinking about buying a horse eventually, I'll take half a dozen carts please"
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 Posted: Thu Dec 28th, 2017 06:27 pm
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Regarding transmission controls, it appears that Ford changed the sensor and wiring at what they call "97 1/4". Early 97 has a Transmission Range Sensor and later 97 has a Digital Transmission Range Sensor. The DTRS uses more wires, so the two 97 5.0 transmission harnesses are also different. Since the early and late 97 transmission inputs are different, the corresponding 97 PCM's should also be different.

Presumedly, the complete 96 transmission is compatible with the early 97 electrics.



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2003 FX4 Level II, Supercharged 5.0L V8, Headers, Duals, BW4406 manual T/C
Aussie Locker, Torsen L/S, 4.10's, Bilstein 7100 rezzies, Cadillac/Mustang rear discs, Duff traction bars
Keypad Entry, Lock LEDs, sway bar discos, Heated seats, Explorer EATC, Trip Computer and consoles

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2016 C-MAX Energi (plug-in Hybrid)
2011 Taurus SEL (highway cruiser)
2003 Ranger 2.3L M5ODR1 Regular Cab (drudge)

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 Posted: Thu Dec 28th, 2017 08:19 pm
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V8 Level II wrote:IMO, that makes pulling the bed and tank unit sound a lot easier.

That would be my suggestion. With an engine hoist it is a one man job.

I got the "P0440" loose gas cap code that turned out being a pinhole in the overflow tube a while back. I pulled the bed to change out the fill hoses and gasket for the sending unit. That was a 3 month troubleshooting nightmare as that was the only code and there are multiple other things that can also cause that code. I spent about $300 on parts swapping out stuff that was not broke.



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 Posted: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 01:15 am
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JAMMAN

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V8 Level II wrote: Regarding transmission controls, it appears that Ford changed the sensor and wiring at what they call "97 1/4". Early 97 has a Transmission Range Sensor and later 97 has a Digital Transmission Range Sensor. The DTRS uses more wires, so the two 97 5.0 transmission harnesses are also different. Since the early and late 97 transmission inputs are different, the corresponding 97 PCM's should also be different.

Presumedly, the complete 96 transmission is compatible with the early 97 electrics.



OK dude now I'm scared. Here is the door tag on the monty. It had a 4r70w but was AWD and I wanted 2wd so I found a 4R70w confirmed off a 96 expo.

Monty was feb of 97 and the transmission harness fit. The 96 2WD 4r70w had a sensor missing toward the back left side sitting in the car, I took the sensor off the monty and it fit right in.

I'm going to run the VIN through the ETIS thing to see if it has any clues how can I tell for sure before I fire this thing up and it won't go forward? Of course after spending copious amounts of cash to have the front yolk changed on the driveshaft.

Motor and tranny are in the ranger at this point. I don't want to do anything else till I know it will work.






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00 XLT 4WD XCSB 4.0 G2
00 XLT 2WD RCSB 5.0 swap Gherkin
00 XLT 4WD RCSB 3.GO! Jalapeño
"I'm thinking about buying a horse eventually, I'll take half a dozen carts please"
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 Posted: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 01:26 am
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JAMMAN

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Build Date:     20.02.1997
Vehicle Line:     Explorer/Mountaineer
Body Style:     4 Door Wagon
Version:     Lincoln/Mercury Series
Engine:     5.0L OHV SEFI V8 (NP)
Transmission:     4R70W (AODE) 4-Speed Auto Trans
Drive:     LHD 4WD (FTD)
Axle Ratio:     3.73
Emission:     With 49 State Emission Requirements
Air Conditioning:     Manual Air Conditioning
Paint:     Medium Willow


     Medium Graphite Interior
     112"/2845MM Wheelbase
     Louisville Plant Built
     With Electronic Group
     With Privacy Glass
     Standard Ovrhed Console & With Rail
     With Unique Full Floor Console
     Front Floor Carpet Mats
     Rear Floor Carpet Mats
     With Load Area Cover
     With Running Boards
     With Integrated Roof Rack
     With Lower Body Moulding
     With Electrochromic R/View Mirror
     With Driver 6 Way Pwr.Seat Adjuster
     With Pass 6 Way Power Seat Adjuster
     With Light Duty Trailer Towing
     4 Door Wagon
     With Int. Rear Window Wiper/Washer
     Rocker Tu-Tone Paint
     With Front Licence Plate Bracket
     7J x 15 Flush 5 Port Aluminum Wheel
     P235/75R15SL S/BLT OWL A-T
     3.73
     Rear Axle Limited Slip Differential
     5.0L OHV SEFI V8 (NP)
     With Speed Control
     Elect Premium AM/FM Stereo/Cass/Clk
     With CD Player Autochanger
     With NAAO Radio Frequency
     With Front Fog Lamps
     Medium Willow
     Lincoln/Mercury Series
     4R70W (AODE) 4-Speed Auto Trans
     Explorer/Mountaineer



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 Posted: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 03:18 am
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I have no first hand experience working with the 96/97 4R70W. However, FWIW, I have heard of V8 swappers who claim to have substituted the DTRS for the TRS (or vice versa) and have it work just fine. I believe, also FWIW, that the transmission internals are the same, or at least compatible, for both years. 



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 Posted: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 11:13 am
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I have the electrical diagram for the mountaineer.
Since the 96 2WD transmission came with a harness of course it fits the sensor I had forgotten that little piece.

The old harness is squished now with the mountaineer.

I looked at a few vids and it was never clear which type had which plug or that there are 2 types so what I'm hoping is that is shows both types in the electrical diagrams with the different plugs so I can figure this out.

Maybe next summer after I finish this project there will be enough gathered info to put together a page that better explains all the different swaps through the years.

I'm not as bright as some of the gurus but I'm not a complete idiot and even after reading for years on ranger swaps (mostly the TRS articles) I still managed to get info wrong and screw mine up several times.

If the article wouldn't have said "It's pretty much plug and play" and started out with "if your ranger was born with a 4 cyl and has coil springs click here instead of reading this article" then I would be done by now and about a grand richer.

Part of the reason I started this forum is this very fact.

Thank you for actually knowing stuff!



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00 XLT 2WD RCSB 5.0 swap Gherkin
00 XLT 4WD RCSB 3.GO! Jalapeño
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 Posted: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 01:38 pm
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I have the electrical diagram for the mountaineer.Since the 96 2WD transmission came with a harness of course it fits the sensor I had forgotten that little piece.


The 97 Expo EVTM shows both types of Range Sensor although it isn't very well marked as to which is which. As I said before, the TRS is early 97 MY and the DTRS came in later in 97 MY. It should be easy to identify what you have because the sensor/harness plugs have different shapes for the two types and the number of wires serving the two sensors is different. 

I always cringe when I see "plug and play" applied to Ranger/Expo 5.0 swaps - usually attributable to someone who hasn't actually done it.:squint:

From an electrical point of view only, I would say that the easiest swaps would be:
  • 99~01 Expo 5.0 into 99~00 V6 Ranger. 
  • 96~97 Expo 5.0 into 95~97 Ranger. 
As you step away from those combos, either donor or donee or both, the electrical complexity increases. 



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2003 FX4 Level II, Supercharged 5.0L V8, Headers, Duals, BW4406 manual T/C
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 Posted: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 02:53 pm
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And I actually have some experience to add to the 99~01 expo comment, I have seen 01 expos with 4.6's with my own eyes, and I have seen them with 5.0's. I didn't buy one guys 01 he had for sale because it had a 4.6.

I don't know if it was an early/late year thing with the 01 or if it was more than one factory making them.

Do you have any info regarding this? Craigslist sellers usually just say "V8" so you have to ask for pictures or go look at it.



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 Posted: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 03:19 pm
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Luck with it and post up the pics... !



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Hurst Shifter w/Longer Replacement Shift Handle with (Homemade) Mounting Adapter; 1.5" up x 1" back.
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 Posted: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 05:16 pm
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There were no 2001 MY Explorers with a factory installed 4.6L. 

The 4.6L wouldn't come close to fitting in the 2nd gen Explorer engine bay without a costly reworking and recertification. That would not happen at the very end of the production run. Ford had to make a bunch of special parts for the 5.0 to make it fit in the gen2's and it is tiny compared to the 4.6L. 

It's possible that you saw a 2002 model year 4.6L that had a 2001 calendar year build date but it would be the new, larger 3rd generation body style that was designed from the ground up to accept the 4.6L.



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2003 FX4 Level II, Supercharged 5.0L V8, Headers, Duals, BW4406 manual T/C
Aussie Locker, Torsen L/S, 4.10's, Bilstein 7100 rezzies, Cadillac/Mustang rear discs, Duff traction bars
Keypad Entry, Lock LEDs, sway bar discos, Heated seats, Explorer EATC, Trip Computer and consoles

Other rides:
2016 C-MAX Energi (plug-in Hybrid)
2011 Taurus SEL (highway cruiser)
2003 Ranger 2.3L M5ODR1 Regular Cab (drudge)

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 Posted: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 06:54 pm
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Hmmmm I would have put money on it but I never in fact did see the title.

Why would someone try to sell a car that they don't know the year of.

So it was probably a 02, his door tag said december of 01 so he thought it was an 01.

I did buy a 2017 CRV in December of 2016.



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00 XLT 4WD XCSB 4.0 G2
00 XLT 2WD RCSB 5.0 swap Gherkin
00 XLT 4WD RCSB 3.GO! Jalapeño
"I'm thinking about buying a horse eventually, I'll take half a dozen carts please"
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 Posted: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 07:55 pm
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The whole model year stuff in American really weirds me out, it's not something i recall ever being a thing in the UK.

It's either the year it was built in, or it's not, i don't remember ever having next years model being available this year....



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 Posted: Fri Dec 29th, 2017 09:16 pm
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MaDMaXX wrote: The whole model year stuff in American really weirds me out, it's not something i recall ever being a thing in the UK.

It's either the year it was built in, or it's not, i don't remember ever having next years model being available this year....

Sure, we have model years here in the UK.

The London Motor Show was always in the autumn and manufacturers brought out new models for the show.

My MGB is a 1974 model but built in December 1973.



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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 01:39 am
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I'm pretty certain you could go get a 2018 model here in September.



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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 03:03 am
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MaDMaXX wrote: I'm pretty certain you could go get a 2018 model here in September.
I watched some videos on them. People complain of the plain interior but the North American model is supposed to have some upgrades for style and comfort. I think horsepower will be about the same but torque went up a bit. Obviously that depends on engine options.

I want to check one out as well. Hopefully the price point is worth not going for a full size. If it's only a few grand off I don't imagine they'll sell well other than base model fleet sales.  



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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 05:28 pm
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mhoward
Hey look ↓ they ↓ bounce!


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Sometimes here in the US, you can buy "next years model" mid-year before. Like when they introduce the the 2019 Ranger mid-year of 2018, for example. It has always been a cluster f**k from Detroit.



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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 06:22 pm
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So, you want to talk clusters ........ here's one:

Ford introduced the Explorer Sport Trac as a 2001 model year vehicle very, VERY early in February 2000 calendar year. Electrically, this early 2001 Trac had many similarities to the 2000 Ranger and 2000 Explorer. 

When 2001 Ranger production started in late summer 2000, several electric circuits and PATS of the 2001 Sport Trac were revamped and it became the electrical first cousin of the 2001 Ranger instead.

So, from the electrical perspective, there were really 2 different 2001 Sport Trac production runs, early and late. The marketing planners got what they wanted and called the early version a 2001 when it was really a 2000 1/2. The parts and service guys (and customers) had to deal with the resulting chaos.

And, oh yeah, they did the same split production thing with the 2001 Explorer 2-dr Sport.

Last edited on Sat Dec 30th, 2017 06:24 pm by V8 Level II



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2003 FX4 Level II, Supercharged 5.0L V8, Headers, Duals, BW4406 manual T/C
Aussie Locker, Torsen L/S, 4.10's, Bilstein 7100 rezzies, Cadillac/Mustang rear discs, Duff traction bars
Keypad Entry, Lock LEDs, sway bar discos, Heated seats, Explorer EATC, Trip Computer and consoles

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