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Auto Transmission / 5.0L Swap.       #: 1961
 Moderated by: Mike69, MaDMaXX, Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
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 Posted: Thu Feb 13th, 2020 02:15 pm
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Scrambler82
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My swap is getting closer to happening nd I have decided to stick with an automatic Transmission, I like the manual trans but its time for something easier to drive in this SoCal Traffic.

Any comments are welcome, please feel free !

Which automatic transmission will be the best to use in the follow 5/0L/Ranger Swap.

2003 Ford Ranger Short Bed Standard 2-dr Cab.
Is now manual, with just one the 100K mark.
Motor wiring will be a "Three-Wire Harness, not an Explorer 5.0L Swap"
Which ever Trans I pick, it will need to be modifiable for an AtlasII T/C.

I've been thinking the A4OD would be the best idea, it will bolt up to the 5.0L and is relatively compact.
I've thought about a newer six speed but size and money are both big factors.

Any other thoughts on what to use ?

Thanks ahead of time, appreciate all the input on other threads !



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Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Thu Feb 13th, 2020 06:00 pm
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What is a "three-wire harness"?



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 Posted: Thu Feb 13th, 2020 08:17 pm
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You could always revert to a C4. Bullet proof, needs no electronics, just sayin



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 Posted: Thu Feb 13th, 2020 09:06 pm
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You guys know what I am going to say its an automatic response to this question

aode with a wide ratio gear set is the 4r70w
US shift makes a stand alone controller
4r70w can be built mild to wild, super wicked good transmission in a SBF Ranger
4 speed
Reverse 
700 ft lbs
W wide ratio gearset (when compared to predecessor aode diff 1st and overdrive)
6 bolt 30 spline ford output will fit any 6 bolt ford case from the 60's till now, plenty of support from Atlas

6 speed would be wicked cool too......
https://www.usshift.com/usq6.shtml

Oooooh la la  so much want!! I like the way you think :)



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 Posted: Thu Feb 13th, 2020 11:16 pm
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OK the quick4 solves about a million problems, do you think it could be programmed for full manual, like if someone could fashion one of the old slap sticks to have the right spacing (like a machinist that does cad daily and programs CNC's occasionally)?

Just curious for the er... future



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 Posted: Fri Feb 14th, 2020 08:46 am
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Good question!
I know there are full manual valve bodies available for the 4r70w just not sure what the advantage is
I believe that means you would have to do the shifting from 1-2 and 2-D 
D is then 3-4, TCC and OD, The OD can be controlled with the OD on and off button

Because you asked I am going to research the MVB for a 4r70w....peak my curiosity

I am sure the USshift Optishift can handle that even the stock PCM can handle that.

My 4r70w (88 bronco II) uses a floor shifter with the gates filed out so the shifter will hold 1st gear or 2nd gear until I release it.....very nice for holding back on hills/rocks
Before filing the detents for the shifter gates the trans would auto shift from 1-2 and 2-d, meaning when you hit redline the shift lever would actually move to the next gear! I could not believe it, the mustang dudes actually drive like this? So filing the gates stopped this and now I can hold 1st gear for the whole trail, or second, or put in D and the trans does all the shifting. With a MVB when put in D you would only have 3-4, TCC and OD, so you would always have to do the 1-2 and 2-d Shifts and D-2, 2-1

Brett (High Plains Performance) is a USShift dealer and my trans builder, he is a 4r70w expert these days...........so if you want to order something let me know I put you in touch with him.



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 Posted: Fri Feb 14th, 2020 08:51 am
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Wow... I just... feel... ignorant... now :'(



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 Posted: Fri Feb 14th, 2020 05:22 pm
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mhoward wrote:
Wow... I just... feel... ignorant... now :'(
Wouldn't it be nice to be 17 again, when you knew everything?



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Tsquare wrote:
mhoward wrote:

Wow... I just... feel... ignorant... now :'(
Wouldn't it be nice to be 17 again, when you knew everything?

Gawd, I miss those days! LMAO



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So many mods... so little time...



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 Posted: Fri Feb 14th, 2020 10:40 pm
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mhoward wrote:
What is a "three-wire harness"?
A 3-Wire Harness is a Harness to run the engine only that only needs three wire to hook it up.

It does have a separate Computer Connector besides the other three wires.

I would have to look it up to be sure of the wiring.

Last edited on Fri Feb 14th, 2020 10:47 pm by Scrambler82



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Fri Feb 14th, 2020 10:45 pm
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Scrambler82
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410customs wrote:
You guys know what I am going to say its an automatic response to this question

aode with a wide ratio gear set is the 4r70w
US shift makes a stand alone controller
4r70w can be built mild to wild, super wicked good transmission in a SBF Ranger
4 speed
Reverse 
700 ft lbs
W wide ratio gearset (when compared to predecessor aode diff 1st and overdrive)
6 bolt 30 spline ford output will fit any 6 bolt ford case from the 60's till now, plenty of support from Atlas

6 speed would be wicked cool too......
https://www.usshift.com/usq6.shtml

Oooooh la la  so much want!! I like the way you think :)

Thats an interesting piece.

I don't know too much about the 4r70w, although I did hear something about putting the 4r70w's inners in an AOD... ????


I am still up in the air on which one s best, TCI is selling a 700R4 kit for the 5.0L-W... !



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Fri Feb 14th, 2020 11:35 pm
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4R70W IMO is much better than the C4 but is an electronic transmission and will need a controller if you don't use the expo ECU or the aftermarket electro-magic box linked in the thread.

The C4 you put in, hook up one vacuum line and 2 cooler lines bazinga, it works. Unless you boost, then you need some vacuum magic.

C4 is plenty enough trans to handle your 5.0 and is no fuss.



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01 XLT 2WD RC Steppie 3.0 auto Silver
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JAMMAN wrote:
You could always revert to a C4. Bullet proof, needs no electronics, just sayin

JAMMAN wrote:
4R70W IMO is much better than the C4 but is an electronic transmission and will need a controller if you don't use the expo ECU or the aftermarket electro-magic box linked in the thread.

The C4 you put in, hook up one vacuum line and 2 cooler lines bazinga, it works. Unless you boost, then you need some vacuum magic.

C4 is plenty enough trans to handle your 5.0 and is no fuss.

I used a C4 when I did a 5.0L Swap in the '88 STX but I always wanted the OD, so enter the AOD, not the "e" though.

I did a one time think a C4 with a OD Unit added might be good but then there are too many thing in line.

I waiting to here back from TCI, hoping they sell a Street Fighter AOD for a 4WD, time will tell.

I am not sure what is needed to install a pre-'93 AOD but I'm thinking a lot less than the newer electronic units.

Tomorrow will bring a few ansers, who will be doing the frame/body/engine setup and then the SHOCKS !

Thx all for input / Ltr



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Sun Feb 16th, 2020 11:04 am
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410customs

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the AOD will need a kick down cable and possibly a vacuum line
The AODE is when the electronics came in
The 4r70w is a AODE with wide ratio gearset

The C4 and C5 autos (c5 is a 4x4 version of a C4) were derived from the early pinto c3 automatic. When they added the aluminum overdrive drum the C4/5 in 1986 it became the A4LD we all know and love.....
When the A4LD went electronic (ditch the kick down cable and vacuum modulator) it became the 4r55e in 1995



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 Posted: Sun Feb 16th, 2020 12:27 pm
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410customs wrote:
the AOD will need a kick down cable and possibly a vacuum line
The AODE is when the electronics came in
The 4r70w is a AODE with wide ratio gearset

The C4 and C5 autos (c5 is a 4x4 version of a C4) were derived from the early pinto c3 automatic. When they added the aluminum overdrive drum the C4/5 in 1986 it became the A4LD we all know and love.....
When the A4LD went electronic (ditch the kick down cable and vacuum modulator) it became the 4r55e in 1995

So let me ask... "In your opinion, Is the AOD or the AODe the better way to go" ?

I would think the AOD over the 4r70, a close ratio would be better, less RPM loss for the hills around here, I would luv a 6-sp but the $$$ go up fast when you start talking electronic 6 speed trans.

Thx for the input.
Ltr



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Sun Feb 16th, 2020 12:37 pm
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So the most desirable non electronic trans is a 1986-1994 A4LD, with 4.10 gears and moderate tires it does the job well.

Do you have a gearing ratio chart per transmission not derived from TRS? I've been wanting to make one for the tech pages which are being outlined, Mr. Howard has contributed some mod sheets we will include in the tech articles, I'm hoping we can come up with quite a resource. I have plans to scan my EVTM's though it will destroy them.

This gives me an idea :-)



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01 XLT 2WD RC Steppie 3.0 auto Silver
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 Posted: Sun Feb 16th, 2020 02:12 pm
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I run 33" now and may go to 35" tire but that for another day.
My gear ratio is 4.56, has been almost perfect for the 3.0 on a regular day around town, on the Freeway, as its called in SoCal, the little 3.0 has trouble on some of the hills, I am in fourth and one hill I sometime have to use third if I don't hit it as a good speed.

I do not have any charts on Transmissions vs Diff Ratios, never thought it was necessary, I always play with the 1 to 1 ratio and accept the rest as is, unless an option pops up about ratio changes.

Since the automatic alway appear to have a relative lower first and second gears it should help me in towing both the small RV and the Tractor.

Sorry I can't contribute to your Chart Project but hope works out !



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Sun Feb 16th, 2020 02:19 pm
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A4LD MUST be built by somebody who knows what the heck they are doing
Same is true with 4r and 5r55e
The A4LD can be rebuilt using 5r55e late model (sohc engine) guts......
1986-1994 is A4LD behind the Cologne 60 degree pushrods 2.9 and 4.0

Brett is now building these A4LD case and operations with 5r55e guts and upgrades

Now that is a A4LD I would run
Otherwise a crapshoot, the rebuild is often when the nightmare begins
Back when my BII was a 4.0 I finally had a transwerx built A4LD that was great, before that I had 4 of them (warranties)....they just do not hold up unless from the factory or rebuilt by someone who knows them and how to build them properly



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JAMMAN wrote:
So the most desirable non electronic trans is a 1986-1994 A4LD, with 4.10 gears and moderate tires it does the job well.

Do you have a gearing ratio chart per transmission not derived from TRS? I've been wanting to make one for the tech pages which are being outlined, Mr. Howard has contributed some mod sheets we will include in the tech articles, I'm hoping we can come up with quite a resource. I have plans to scan my EVTM's though it will destroy them.

This gives me an idea :-)


410customs wrote:
A4LD MUST be built by somebody who knows what the heck they are doing
Same is true with 4r and 5r55e
The A4LD can be rebuilt using 5r55e late model (sohc engine) guts......
1986-1994 is A4LD behind the Cologne 60 degree pushrods 2.9 and 4.0

Brett is now building these A4LD case and operations with 5r55e guts and upgrades

Now that is a A4LD I would run
Otherwise a crapshoot, the rebuild is often when the nightmare begins
Back when my BII was a 4.0 I finally had a transwerx built A4LD that was great, before that I had 4 of them (warranties)....they just do not hold up unless from the factory or rebuilt by someone who knows them and how to build them properly

I'm guessing here, but behind a medium built 5.0L-W,  (350-400 HP)..., the A4LD wouldn't hold up.

I was reading, on the Advanced Adapters (AA) Site, they mention a "4R75" Transmission, what's that, anyone's guess ?

I'm partial to the AOD idea, maybe an "E" even, but read the OD band is weak, not sure if this is taken care of with a good HP rebuild.

It should be easier than this.

Last edited on Sun Feb 16th, 2020 02:52 pm by Scrambler82



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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a4ld is a v6 trans does not bolt up to SBF, bolts to cologne v6

AOD is SBF trans, bolts to 5.0, 351, 300 I6

4r75w is a predecessor of the 4r70w but never had a SBF bellhousing.......
some of the 4r75w parts are finding their way into 4r70w builds to make some nice upgraded custom units

from wiki:
4R75W[edit]

In 2003 Ford revised the 4R70W transmission with a stronger ring gear that had 24 lugs, as opposed to 6, for the output shaft sensor (OSS) to read off of, a new torque converter, a revised front pump assembly, and a vehicle speed sensor (VSS) that complements the OSS to improve shift quality and efficiency. These improvements allowed the 4R75W to handle more power while being more efficient and economical. While not used on all 2003 model year vehicles, the 4R75W/E transmissions eventually replaced the 4R70W/E.


Any AOD, AODE or 4R70W can be built to handle big HP, they are all the same/similar case transmissions found behind the small block v8 engines (and some straight sixes)
Most people choose the 4r70w for their resto mod projects these days
Part of the reason I use explorer drivetrains as the donor for my builds, is the trans controls are built into the factory PCM = cheap, one and done
The computer controls are the way to go! Smoooth like butter


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AOD_transmission



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Wow, interesting info, I just read the AOD info, thanks as always.

I am trying to stay away from the computer route, so I might be stuck with a non-computer controlled Trans.

I will talk to the guy that will be doing the job and see where he is coming from, might decide on a different wiring setup and a computer to control things, we will see.

Monday morning will tell some.

I am getting more info together everyday for my swap, finally, motor I have, the frame will be ordered next, then the trans and adapters for the Atlas II.
then I need to think about a good four link suspension.



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Mon Feb 17th, 2020 10:33 am
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410customs

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AOD for you!! Would be a perfect fit for your power goals and keep it non computer conrtolled
Camburg makes a nice link kit for the rear



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I build custom RBV, specializing in drivetrain conversions, wiring, suspension and complete custom trucks
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 Posted: Mon Feb 17th, 2020 12:36 pm
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Scrambler82
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410customs wrote:
AOD for you!! Would be a perfect fit for your power goals and keep it non computer conrtolled
Camburg makes a nice link kit for the rear

I'm kind of stuck on the AOD now, not the computer controlled one.
I'm thinking, if TCI is selling one for a 4WD then they would have gone through it to make sure it was upgraded to eliminate any problems, HOPING !

I will check out the Camburg Kit, I'm asking around the Web and not finding as much as I thought I would.
Suggestions are always use the four link in the rear and Long Radius Arms in the front, not being as savvy as I would like, I'm stuck reading more.

Thanks again,



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Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Mon Feb 17th, 2020 11:04 pm
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Scrambler82
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Since I've started Posting n this thread about the Best Transmission to use in a swap, I've decided, with the help of this Site and Its members, to use an AOD, one that has been built for Heavy Duty use, towing in particular.
I've found a few Rebuilder/New Transmission Shop but the one that stand out to me is"PerformaBuilt Transmissions". (all Five-Star Reviews) ???
They have what is called a Heavy Hauler AOD and they list all of the parts.  The one part I was really thinking of was the  4th Gear OD Band and the Pressure... the regular stock AODs has problems in that area as number one problem.   This Company adds wider HD OD Band and pressure increasing mod.
"https://www.performabuilt.com/product/heavy-hauler-aod/"
So from here I need to know who has any knowledge of this Company and if they have had any problems ?
I searched on the Web, found a bunch of five Star Reviews, but no reviews that call out a problem of any kind... !   I know all five star reviews, this is great, not always.   If there are no disgruntled Customers, seems funny, or I'm being too critical and the PerformaBuilt Trans Company is really a great place.  They are a little high on the pricing but they give a good warranty; there Customer Service so far has been great and informative.
Any comments about this company ?

Last edited on Tue Feb 18th, 2020 12:03 pm by Scrambler82



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Wed Feb 19th, 2020 11:01 pm
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Scrambler82
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Occupation: Quality Assurance Engineer ...
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Found out the output spline number on the AOD is 31 Spline, my Atlas II Input is 32... beat me with a wet noodle, one spline count difference.
I will need to locate a local shop to mod the T/C Input Shaft, don't really want to send it to Washington State but have to have it done.
The new Frame isn't ordered yet, I want to get all the parts in line before ordering, then order all at once.



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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