AC and "Refrigerant" - General Technical Questions - Tech Section

Not logged in - Login | Register

Posted: Sat Mar 14th, 2020 09:18 am

Quote

1^st Post

JAMMAN

Owns A Torsen

Joined: Mon Sep 18th, 2017

Location: Grove City, Ohio USA

Posts: 6436

Name: Jim ...

Occupation: 5 axis cnc programmer ...

Interests: RBV's ...

Status:

Offline

Reputation:

Reputation Points: 6436

Member's Gallery

This comes from days of searching, since my wife's 2017 CRV is fresh out of warranty and is having AC issues BUT will apply to all the 2019/2020 Rangers and probably beyond unless the EPA can be dismantled.

You can't even call it "Freon" any more, it identifies as "refrigerant" and calling it freon might trigger it to sue you.

Days of searching and I finally found the type of "refrigerant" our CRV takes but this far can't find if the service ports are the same valve fitting or the pressure ranges of the "refrigerant".

Here is the best article I could find, copy and pasted for your viewing pleasure.

CAR REFRIGERANT R12, R134A, R1234YF: USEFUL INFORMATION

There are still numerous vehicles on the market with air-conditioning systems originally designed for refrigerant R12. 2001 marked the official final end of R12 in vehicle air-conditioning systems. Ever since then, R12 systems had to be converted during maintenance or repair work. R134a was and is used as replacement refrigerant besides several "drop-in" refrigerants (refrigerant mixtures).

Even today, the conversion from R12 to R134a is still an ongoing topic in the area of classic and modern classic cars as well as in several non-EU countries.

In the course of conversion, the system must be checked for leak tightness. Leaks must be corrected beforehand. All components should be checked for function and damage. The filter dryer is to be replaced. Sealing rings should be replaced. In addition, the mineral oil of the R12 system is to be replaced with PAG or PAO oil. In the course of this replacement it is also recommended to flush the air-conditioning system.

R134a has a high GWP (global warming potential) of 1430. With the current EC Directive 2006/40/EC it was decided to only use refrigerants with a GWP of less than 150 in the future.

Air-conditioning systems in vehicles of class M1 (passenger cars, vehicles with up to 8 passenger seats) and class N1 (commercial vehicles with a permissible total weight of up to 3.5 metric tons) for which a type approval was issued within the EU as of January 1, 2011, can therefore no longer be filled with R134a. As of January 1, 2017, vehicles filled with R134a are no longer entitled to receive initial registration approval. R134a can, however, continue to be used to carry out service and maintenance work on existing R134a systems. R1234yf with a GWP of 4 shall be used as new refrigerant. Other refrigerants can also be used, however, provided their GWP value is below 150. Only in time will it become apparent if all vehicle manufacturers agree on a single refrigerant, or whether different refrigerants will be used.

This, of course, also impacts workshops and their service personnel. As such, it appears that purchasing new service units is something that cannot be avoided. Separate measures with respect to storing and handling the new refrigerants must certainly also be observed.

____________________
00 XLT 4WD RCSB 3.GO! JalapeÃ±o
01 XLT 2WD RC Steppie 3.0 auto Silver
The future belongs to those who show up.

Already liked - 1 like likes

410customs

Quote

Posted: Sat Mar 14th, 2020 10:32 am

Quote

2^nd Post

4.0power
Member

Joined: Sun Nov 5th, 2017

Location: USA

Posts: 496

Name:

Occupation:

Interests:

Status:

Offline

Reputation:

Reputation Points: 496

Member's Gallery

I can't stand all the new BS from the epa on Freon laws (yea I like that word more than refrigerate lol). It's all a money making gimmick. I do commercial hvac and have to jump thru hoops sometimes to work on stuff.

Heck I'm putting a/c back in my 89 fox and I'll for sure be using r12!

____________________
2002 xlt 4.0 5r55e 4x4 4.10 rear disc brake swap from sn95 **currently swapping in a 5.0***
2003 2.3 2wd 5 speed single cab dropped 9 inches looks like crap rides like crap but for some reason itâ€™s cool to me
2004 gmc 2500hd 6.6 diesel LLY
1989 foxbody 347 stroker t5 trans

Already liked -

Quote

Posted: Sat Mar 14th, 2020 04:49 pm

Quote

3^rd Post

Scrambler82
Old Bastard !

Joined: Fri Dec 22nd, 2017

Location: California USA

Posts: 2108

Name: Grev B ...

Occupation: Quality Assurance Engineer ...

Interests: Rangers, Photography, Metal Bending ...

Status:

Offline

Reputation:

Reputation Points: 2108

Member's Gallery

The '03 Red EDGE, was not putting out the cold air is should, or I thought it should.
I purchased from AutoZone the stuff that they said was the right stuff.
Easy to add to the system, loaded it up per instructions, took the truck for a ride, and although the wife says it was better I didn't feel much difference.
I expected to be driven out with the cold, maybe I didn't do it the right way, I don't know.

The EPA, my biggest problem with them is Vehicles meeting the Emission Spec vs Engine Swaps. If the vehicle still meets the spec for the given year of the vehicle then what is wrong, no matter what engine is under the hood.

____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK; now Mike's Welding and Fabrication.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !

Already liked -

Quote

Posted: Sun Mar 15th, 2020 07:21 am

Quote

4^th Post

Mike69

Mustang Nut

Joined: Sun Oct 22nd, 2017

Location: Horsepasture, USA

Posts: 1692

Name: Mike ...

Occupation: Semi-retired ...

Interests: Vintage Mustangs, RBV's, car shows, & woodworking ...

Status:

Offline

Reputation:

Reputation Points: 1692

Member's Gallery

Scrambler82 wrote:
The EPA, my biggest problem with them is Vehicles meeting the Emission Spec vs Engine Swaps. If the vehicle still meets the spec for the given year of the vehicle then what is wrong, no matter what engine is under the hood.
Scrambler82, I agree, it should not matter what engine is under the hood as long as it passes emissions test it should be OK.

____________________
21 Bronco Sport Big Bend (Wife's DD)
05 F150 XLT Reg Cab, 2WD, 5.4L, Auto (My DD)
69 Mustang Coupe 5.0, 5 spd 9" rear(Project)
14 Kawasaki Vulcan (Wife's Toy)

Already liked -

Quote

Posted: Mon Mar 16th, 2020 07:09 am

Quote

5^th Post

JAMMAN

Owns A Torsen

Joined: Mon Sep 18th, 2017

Location: Grove City, Ohio USA

Posts: 6436

Name: Jim ...

Occupation: 5 axis cnc programmer ...

Interests: RBV's ...

Status:

Offline

Reputation:

Reputation Points: 6436

Member's Gallery

Down with EPA regs on this. Not needed. How many people swap motors? 50 times more than tested positive for.... but still such a small portion of the cars being driven daily it will not make a difference.

____________________
00 XLT 4WD RCSB 3.GO! JalapeÃ±o
01 XLT 2WD RC Steppie 3.0 auto Silver
The future belongs to those who show up.

Already liked -

Quote

Posted: Mon Mar 16th, 2020 11:25 am

Quote

6^th Post

Scrambler82
Old Bastard !

Joined: Fri Dec 22nd, 2017

Location: California USA

Posts: 2108

Name: Grev B ...

Occupation: Quality Assurance Engineer ...

Interests: Rangers, Photography, Metal Bending ...

Status:

Offline

Reputation:

Reputation Points: 2108

Member's Gallery

Mike69 wrote:
Scrambler82 wrote:

The EPA, my biggest problem with them is Vehicles meeting the Emission Spec vs Engine Swaps. If the vehicle still meets the spec for the given year of the vehicle then what is wrong, no matter what engine is under the hood.
Scrambler82, I agree, it should not matter what engine is under the hood as long as it passes emissions test it should be OK.

JAMMAN wrote:
Down with EPA regs on this. Not needed. How many people swap motors? 50 times more than tested positive for.... but still such a small portion of the cars being driven daily it will not make a difference.
If you were to take a survey I would place my money on less than 1% of all vehicles driven have engine swaps... (guess on that percentage) ! My point as Jin stated, there aren't a lot !

To me... the law should be you can't make more emissions than your vehicle did originally, why is that such a problem ?

When I did my '88 Swap, I did put in a newer engine, by five years a '93 Stang, 5.0L-W, got better mileage than the 2.9L V-6, always passed with the Tailpipe Sniffer, and wham-bam, no harm done and I save fuel.
Whats the saying, "No Harm, No Foul" !

Sorry for carrying on but this is a sore point to me, America, Land of the Free, do what you want and when you want... as long as it is deemed OK by other, BS !

Already liked -

Quote

Posted: Mon Mar 16th, 2020 03:06 pm

Quote

7^th Post

Eddie Money
Member

Joined: Mon Nov 13th, 2017

Location: Pacific North West

Posts: 1587

Name:

Occupation:

Interests: Burt gummer life ...

Status:

Offline

Reputation:

Reputation Points: 1587

Member's Gallery

It's my understanding that emissions are shutting down. Most cars on the road meet emissions. So they will focus on making sure manufacturers meet the standards.

The only thing most states want you to put the most current version of smog equipment whether it's the newer engine or newer vehicle. If you put a 98 V8 in a 2003 you need 2003 smog gear. If you put a 2003 V8 in a 98 ranger you need 2003 smog gear etc...makes perfect sense.

____________________

I know my crazy! Do you?
2007 Sport 4door 4x4 4.0L SOHC V6 Ranger

Already liked -

Quote

Posted: Mon Mar 16th, 2020 03:23 pm

Quote

8^th Post

Scrambler82
Old Bastard !

Joined: Fri Dec 22nd, 2017

Location: California USA

Posts: 2108

Name: Grev B ...

Occupation: Quality Assurance Engineer ...

Interests: Rangers, Photography, Metal Bending ...

Status:

Offline

Reputation:

Reputation Points: 2108

Member's Gallery

Eddie Money wrote:
It's my understanding that emissions are shutting down. Most cars on the road meet emissions. So they will focus on making sure manufacturers meet the standards.

The only thing most states want you to put the most current version of smog equipment whether it's the newer engine or newer vehicle. If you put a 98 V8 in a 2003 you need 2003 smog gear. If you put a 2003 V8 in a 98 ranger you need 2003 smog gear etc...makes perfect sense.
That sound great, Cali pushes for tight emission standards, we will problemly be the last to let go.
Like I said meet the standards for the year of your vehicle.Funny, but it would seem that some aftermarket companies should have come out with a system to add on to an engine swap, that would meet current standard or somewhere in between !

Ltr

Already liked -

Quote

Current time is 04:16 pm	Top
Ford-Rangers.com Ranger Forum > Tech Section > General Technical Questions > AC and "Refrigerant"
Users viewing this topic