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Sending a message to porch package thief       #: 308
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 Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2017 10:05 pm
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CBB9M
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Everyone knows the sound of gunfire, even if it's a blank shotty shell. Location was Lewiston, ID but it could be anywhere, and sooner or later and as tempers flare, I'm willing to bet the someone will cross a line. Hard to derive pleasure from stolen merchandise when you're dead. :D



Linky to news story: http://www.kxly.com/news/local-news/extreme-efforts-to-deter-package-thieves-prompts-warning/667604182



https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/937769822816890882



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 Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2017 09:38 am
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If I find someone stealing ANYTHING from my property, they won't be met with a blank. That being said, I fully enjoyed the the video of the guy "running for his life". LMAO



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 Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2017 08:39 pm
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I wouldn't have a problem with that; my luck would be if I shot a thief with something as innocent as rock salt either my house would be a target for an intense retaliatory drive by or the scum that stome my package would sue, live in my house, and fund his lifestyle off my resources. In the meanwhile, this video of a few days ago is sweeping the net. Here we have a nanny who intervened and stopped a package theft in progress from a porch in Everett, WA:

The story: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/03/nanny-stops-suspected-package-thief-says-shes-not-afraid-to-put-them-in-check.html



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 Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2017 08:48 pm
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More and more people are fighting back... mostly because law enforcement is quite ineffective.



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 Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2017 09:07 pm
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Fortunately package theft is not a problem in my immediate neck of the woods (not yet anyway, anything can happen). If that changes I really like the idea of putting 20# of dog sh*t in a bait box and leaving it on the porch. :) On the flipside, I expect that bait box would be returned to my house or a car parked outside via "airmail". And this is probably why cops here urge people to not take matters into their own hands, call us. Yeah right, we know how it'll be prioritized and we know what they are doing about it (nothing other than the occasional video revelation on TV news, big deal...).

*The thought of using a method to deploy the contents of the box out when it's opened sounds quite delightful ("dirty bomb"). 20# of poo in someones face and all over the room ought to send a message.



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 Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2017 09:13 pm
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 Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2017 09:43 pm
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CBB9M wrote: Fortunately package theft is not a problem in my immediate neck of the woods (not yet anyway, anything can happen). If that changes I really like the idea of putting 20# of dog sh*t in a bait box and leaving it on the porch. :) On the flipside, I expect that bait box would be returned to my house or a car parked outside via "airmail". And this is probably why cops here urge people to not take matters into their own hands, call us. Yeah right, we know how it'll be prioritized and we know what they are doing about it (nothing other than the occasional video revelation on TV news, big deal...).

*The thought of using a method to deploy the contents of the box out when it's opened sounds quite delightful ("dirty bomb"). 20# of poo in someones face and all over the room ought to send a message.


Better yet, in a getaway car 20# of poo slung across a windscreen and at least the two front windows would make for a rather interesting police report .. I'm thinking a 555 timer and a M80 attached to a cheap as 9 volt battery back up Excaliber Alarm system... #gearsworking



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 Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2017 09:47 pm
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More! More! *rubbing hands together with evil grin*



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 Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2017 10:14 pm
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mhoward wrote: God, I love the way you think!


I'd be happy if somewhere in a segment of the vid that did not go public is footage of the thief pushing back/resisting in anyway/punching the other gal out to defend her property. Reason is, in this state that turns a misdemeanor theft charge into a felony robbery charge, and if she happened to have a gun then weapon enhancement penalties and mandatory sentences apply. All this....if a plea bargain doesn't occar. Result if there is no plea bargain? She gets to live in a gated community for women with three hots and a cot. :)




Last edited on Tue Dec 5th, 2017 10:18 pm by CBB9M



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 Posted: Wed Dec 6th, 2017 08:15 am
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I'm not sure how the laws are around me. Thief probably gets off with a slap on the wrist... it's pretty lame around here.



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 Posted: Thu Dec 7th, 2017 02:35 pm
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I don't particurally like Indiana, either, but I'll give them credit where credit is due, and I mean that with no sarcasm at all.

Indiana has a 'stand your ground' or 'castle doctrine' set of laws. I'd have to go back and read up on them to get the exact specifics on how it relates to theft of your property without entry, but in short it means that whether I'm at autozone getting brake parts or if I'm at home stuffing my face with whatever unhealthy thing I chose this time, if someone threatened me with bodily harm (bolstered if he has a weapon clearly out) I have no duty to retreat. I can run away if I prefer, but unlike some states that protect the criminals (mind boggling) Indiana doesn't do that. I'll see if I can't dig up the exact legislation on that, but suffice it to say, Indiana is pretty cool towards those who want to defend themselves instead of relying on the boys in blue.



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Courtesy of USACarry.com, the following can be found under IC 35-41-3-2 & IC 35-41-3-3

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(b) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(c) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against another person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
only if that force is justified under subsection (a).
(d) A person is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person and does not have a duty to retreat if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or stop the other person from hijacking, attempting to hijack, or otherwise seizing or attempting to seize unlawful control of an aircraft in flight. For purposes of this subsection, an aircraft is considered to be in flight while the aircraft is:
(1) on the ground in Indiana:
(A) after the doors of the aircraft are closed for takeoff; and

(B) until the aircraft takes off;
(2) in the airspace above Indiana; or
(3) on the ground in Indiana:
(A) after the aircraft lands; and
(B) before the doors of the aircraft are opened after landing.
(e) Notwithstanding subsections (a), (b), and (c), a person is not justified in using force if:
(1) the person is committing or is escaping after the commission of a crime;
(2) the person provokes unlawful action by another person with intent to cause bodily injury to the other person; or
(3) the person has entered into combat with another person or is the initial aggressor unless the person withdraws from the encounter and communicates to the other person the intent to do so and the other person nevertheless continues or threatens to continue unlawful action.
(f) Notwithstanding subsection (d), a person is not justified in using force if the person:
(1) is committing, or is escaping after the commission of, a crime;
(2) provokes unlawful action by another person, with intent to cause bodily injury to the other person; or
(3) continues to combat another person after the other person withdraws from the encounter and communicates the other person's intent to stop hijacking,
attempting to hijack, or otherwise seizing or attempting to seize unlawful control of an aircraft in flight.
As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.1. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.8; Acts 1979, P.L.297, SEC.1; P.L.59-2002, SEC.1; P.L.189-2006, SEC.1.

IC 35-41-3-3

Use of force relating to arrest or escape
Sec. 3. (a) A person other than a law enforcement officer is justified in using reasonable force against another person to effect an arrest or prevent the other person's escape if:
(1) a felony has been committed; and
(2) there is probable cause to believe the other person committed that felony.
However, such a person is not justified in using deadly force unless that force is justified under section 2 of this chapter.
(b) A law enforcement officer is justified in using reasonable force if the officer reasonably believes that the force is necessary to effect a lawful arrest. However, an officer is justified in using deadly force only if the officer:
(1) has probable cause to believe that that deadly force is necessary:
(A) to prevent the commission of a forcible felony; or
(B) to effect an arrest of a person who the officer has probable cause to believe poses a threat of serious bodily injury to the officer or a third person; and
(2) has given a warning, if feasible, to the person against whom the deadly force is to be used.
(c) A law enforcement officer making an arrest under an invalid warrant is justified in using force as if the warrant was valid, unless the officer knows that the warrant is invalid.
(d) A law enforcement officer who has an arrested person in custody is justified in using the same force to prevent the escape of the arrested person from custody that the officer would be justified in using if the officer was arresting that person. However, an officer is justified in using deadly force only if the officer:
(1) has probable cause to believe that deadly force is necessary to prevent the escape from custody of a person who the officer has probable cause to believe poses a threat of serious bodily injury to the officer or a third person; and
(2) has given a warning, if feasible, to the person against whom the deadly force is to be used.
(e) A guard or other official in a penal facility or a law enforcement officer is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, if the officer has probable cause to believe that the force is necessary to prevent the escape of a person who is detained in the penal facility.
(f) Notwithstanding subsection (b), (d), or (e), a law enforcement officer who is a defendant in a criminal prosecution has the same right as a person who is not a law enforcement officer to assert self-defense under IC 35-41-3-2.
As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.1. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.9; Acts 1979, P.L.297, SEC.2; P.L.245-1993, SEC.1.


If you're not interested in reading any of that, it says clearly that I am legally protected from prosecution if I use reasonable force (IE, not a flamethrower) in order to stop someone if I believe someone's life is in danger, or my own life.

The last part, however is what's interesting me. It says that I can use reasonable force to effect an arrest if a felony has been committed and I believe the person I see is responsible for the felony I just saw. What it does NOT allow me to do is use deadly force to effect an arrest, meaning I can't pop a .45 between the snot-rag's shoulder blades if he tries to run away. An officer of the law can, but not me.

The question is though, what counts as a felony in Indiana? Does stealing mail fall under a felony?

Something else too, what about the section covering "Use of force to protect person or property", namely the property side of that. What property falls under this? One could interpret the law as saying "Yeah, blow the guy away for taking your stuff off the porch" but that doesn't necessarily mean that's the case.

Food for thought.



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 Posted: Fri Dec 22nd, 2017 04:05 am
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