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EP27 Question       #: 197
 Moderated by: NoPower, Mike69, MaDMaXX,
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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 08:43 pm
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JAMMAN

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Since the load is rather insignificant on an EP27 I'm having a hard time understanding the input/output of the wiring.


Seems to me since the switching of the hazard / turn signals as far as the bulbs are concerned are handled by the turn signal or hazard switch... why does there have to be 2 "L" terminals since they both are only affected by the load and not necessarily the amount of the load?


Also why is there a hot  then the ignition? Only reason I can see is positive would carry a heavier load and ignition just tells it that it is OK to flash... with all LEDS the load on the entire unit is a fraction of what it would be with filaments so why is there even a positive tab?Seems like they could get rid of one of the plus and one of the L's and just use ignition and one L for everything?


Maybe I'm trying to over think it. I would like to see a true schematic for the inside of an EP27 to better understand what it is doing. Doing at a level deeper than "it goes click and makes the lights flash"



Attachment: EP27.jpg (Downloaded 30 times)



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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 09:20 pm
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on a normal relay.. 85 or 86 can be ground or positive, doesn't matter really.  But when the relay sees both positive and ground switched (ign or otherwise triggered input voltage) on those; whatever is connected through pin 30 [constantly] voltage or ground wise will switch through to pin 87 [out] from 87a.

The IGN controls the source of power through 30 or 87 whichever you choose.

So for like a turn on relay only function. I like to hold a relay so the odd pin (30) is at the bottom. In a clock wise fashion I start there as

30 [IN]
85 [HOT]
87 [OUT]
86 [GRND]
87a [/ not used]


Last edited on Sat Nov 18th, 2017 09:28 pm by Undrstm8ed



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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 09:29 pm
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JAMMAN

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EP27 is a might bit different than a relay, though it has a small relay in it with an electronic circuit which would be affected by polarity. I want to go DEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPP......



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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 10:23 pm
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JAMMAN wrote: EP27 is a might bit different than a relay, though it has a small relay in it with an electronic circuit which would be affected by polarity. I want to go DEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPP......

yes/no..

L- Load   = Output (87)
- - ground   = Ground - (85 or 86)
L - Hazard Switch   = input/Output (87a)
+ - Battery   = HOT - 30
I - Ignition   = Input - (86 or 85)

the circuit board merely eliminates the wires and seems to be acting as a multiplier for Switched Outputs. We use to make Wig-Wag cop lights like MSP (Michigan State Police) had back in the day with a flash pack and 2-3 relays all the time just to get people out of the way while.. Ummm..

[Ahem!] Street racing.. [cough-cough!!] late nights...



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"Be never first, never last and never noticed." - Unknown

"The slave is held most securely when he is held by the chains of his own will and of his own fears, and when he is locked down by his own slavish desires for a comfortable life." - Michael Bunker

"Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur" - ~ attributed to Petronius (Gaius Petronius Arbiter (ca. 27–66 AD))
Roman courtier during the reign of Nero.

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." - Thomas Paine


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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 10:31 pm
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chris

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So the EP27 serves both turn signals and hazard.

You will want the hazards to work independent of ignition and the turn signals to only work with ignition on.

The two sides of the vehicle need to operate independently as turn signals and together as hazards.

Thus you need an earth (ground) for the electronics and a +12v supply for the electronics and the hazard function which is switched out of L1 and the hazard switch also joins both sides of the vehicle.

The ignition supply provides power for the turn signals which is switched out of L via the turn switch.

Internally I bet it is driven by a 555 timer and has a couple of relays - a main switching one and a load sensing one.







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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 11:08 pm
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it's the magic pixies inside that do the hard work lol.



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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 11:21 pm
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JAMMAN

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555's are cool. Huh huh huh.



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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 11:27 pm
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JAMMAN

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If nobody can come up with a schematic I'm going to take one apart. C'mon buggy I know you have one stashed in your closet. I can handle it.



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 Posted: Sun Nov 19th, 2017 01:31 am
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i've actually wondered what electronic goodies are inside the ep-27 that makes them not only led friendly & some are heavier duty than the standard ep27's.
i might have to get one of those ebay chinese specials to take apart.



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 Posted: Sun Nov 19th, 2017 02:21 am
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mhoward
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Do any of these help?  If not, just delete the post.



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 Posted: Sun Nov 19th, 2017 03:25 am
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JAMMAN

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I'm not a post deleter or member deleter you will find. Unless you post pictures of naked pygmies. Then I can get nasty LOL.



I have a small mod in mind and will have to disassemble one to see what I can tweak in it.



I took one apart but didn't map it while I had it apart. I had one in my tool box for like 4 years because it wouldn't work on my dodge ram, evidently a 2002 ram 1500 didn't have a flasher it was built in to the module. It fit my ranger just fine but I did take it apart.

There was a 555 in there maybe 2 I forgot, and a small relay. The relay clicks but is driven by the 555 timer so the only load on the timer is the relay and the relay actuates the lights that's why they blink the same rate as filament lights do.

You can probably change one resistor and change the blink rate up or down.

But that isn't the mod I have in mind I just have to get my stuff from e-bay and see if my crazy theory holds water.




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 Posted: Sun Nov 19th, 2017 04:34 am
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MaDMaXX

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Is EP27 the LED friendly replacement for the indicator relay?



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 Posted: Sun Nov 19th, 2017 11:34 am
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JAMMAN

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Yes :)



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 Posted: Sun Nov 19th, 2017 11:55 am
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chris

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....  there are electronic flasher units that just operate the turn signals and normally have three terminals - they are load insensitive unlike the early thermal type flasher unit and I don't see why they shouldn't also drive led lights.

The EP27 is a bit more complicated as it includes the hazard warning light function and has five terminals. Early hazard warning systems used a separate flasher rated to drive all four indicator lights.




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 Posted: Sun Nov 19th, 2017 01:34 pm
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JAMMAN

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I fit were an earlier system it would be much easier to do my little mod.

Electrically some of these cars are a nightmare. I'm creating a instrument cluster light tester and they have positive to some lights with ground trigger and ground to some lights with positive trigger. ?

Doesn't matter with filaments but LED's are a little sensitive to polarity.





Here is the circuit board for the tester. Was a nightmare. Need some mill time to run it.








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 Posted: Sun Nov 19th, 2017 07:57 pm
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JAMMAN wrote: I'm not a post deleter or member deleter you will find. Unless you post pictures of naked pygmies. Then I can get nasty LOL.


Wait... naked pygmies...!? :crazy



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"The slave is held most securely when he is held by the chains of his own will and of his own fears, and when he is locked down by his own slavish desires for a comfortable life." - Michael Bunker

"Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur" - ~ attributed to Petronius (Gaius Petronius Arbiter (ca. 27–66 AD))
Roman courtier during the reign of Nero.

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." - Thomas Paine


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