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Guns & Ammo thread
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 Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 03:50 am
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TheArcticWolf1911
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Alright, this is going to be a bit of a drawn out post so, bear with me.
What I carry as of right now is a Remington R1 1911 with a 5" barrel chambered in .45 ACP. My current carry ammunition is .45 ACP standard pressure 230 grain FMJ from GECO.
For a while I wasn't concerned with over penetration, because at the time I figured that if I had to shoot someone to save my own skin, nobody would be standing behind them, therefor who cares. Well, I've been paying a bit more attention to my surroundings, specifically how things are laid out, and I've come to the realization that I need to make some changes.
For example, if I had to shoot someone in my driveway, and that round over-penetrated and continued out through his back, I'd be sending that round into someone's house or fence. Obviously this is bad thing and not what I want.
Well, I found out that finding hollowpoints isn't as easy as I thought it would be. There are plenty of them to pick from, but I also found a very telling chart from lucky gunner. I'll post the link at the bottom of this post.
What I found from the .45 ACP is that the rounds (generally speaking) either expanded very well and penetrated very little (well under the 12-18 FBI standard) or didn't expand at all and acted like FMJs. I also noticed quite a few times that expansion wasn't uniform. Some flattened out nicely and others didn't expand at all.
Now, here's the biggest rub. The ammo that I saw perform the best was +P, which is all well and good, but my 1911 is not rated for +P. Needless to say, what I found didn't give me much faith in .45 hollow points in standard pressure.
Another issue is that with my limited budget, .50 cents per round isn't exactly the most affordable to practice with, and I want to be able to afford to cycle my carry ammo out every so often and also burn through enough of it that I know the gun will reliably feed and cycle with it.

A few of you may see where I'm headed with this. I'm considering going the way of the US military in 1985 and hanging up the Yankee Bigmouth for the black Italian 'wonder-nine', specifically the 92A1.
Allow me to explain why, if you would…
First off, 9mm is much cheaper to practice with. FMJ can be had for .20 or less per round. I think we can all agree that more practice is a good thing. Not only that, but 9mm hollow points also appear to be cheaper. Ballpark that I found was around .30 cents per round, which is close to the price of .45 FMJ.
Second, that same place showed a very different story with 9mm. The 9mm was more consistent across the board. Of course there were a few duds, but most of the ammo tested expanded uniformly, penetrated uniformly and mostly within the 12-18 penetration standard, overall making ammo selection easier with a wider range to choose from.
Third, the 92A1 can hold a lot more than the .45. This one has been done to death so I'll keep it short. With the 1911, I could carry a maximum of 22 rounds. Two spare 7 shot magazines, and 7+1 in the gun. Now, assuming I also carry three magazines, that would give me 52 rounds on my person. Again, two spares at 17 rounds each and 17+1 in the gun. That is a lot of rounds, and I like having a lot of rounds. Would I need them all? Chances are, no I wouldn't. I could probably carry no spares at all and be just fine, but that's not how I roll.

Part of me still prefers .45 over 9mm (likely because 1911 and all), but the advantages I'd get with the 9mm are definitely quite compelling to make the change.
I do realize that the 92A1 isn't my only option for 9mm, but that's the 9mm I was going to buy anyway, so in my eyes, it makes sense. I also realize that the 92 is not a small gun. I held one and fired another, then instantly fell in love. Considering most of the time I open carry OWB, I don't consider that to be an issue, and a cover garment when needed can either be a button-down shirt left open or a jacket, depending on what time of the year it is.

So, those are my thoughts. I'd really appreciate it if anyone here could provide their thoughts as well.



EDIT: Here's the link to the Lucky Gunner Article:

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/


Last edited on Thu Nov 16th, 2017 04:03 am by TheArcticWolf1911



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 Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 04:01 am
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MaDMaXX

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There is so much you can go hyper into with most of what you just mentioned - for the most part, "in that area" is what you're going to need and notice.

So don't stress it.


1) Do not carry ball ammo
2) The aim of carrying is to stop the threat should the need arise.
3) Ball, whilst humane in the wound it creates, is inefficient at "stopping the threat" for the same reason.


I stick to big name brands and commercial ammo to cover my ass, one that your local LEO's use is good.
Having said that, i just just Hornady Critical Defence or Duty (Duty is a heavier round) usually whichever is on sale, a good price is $20 or under for the box of 25.

I do carry a 9 as it's always concealed.
I have also found that my Hornady rounds seem to have the same point of impact as my ball ammo when i practise, at least it's close enough for me to practise with ball 9/10 times.



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 Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2017 05:19 am
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Not exactly the fan boy glock owner, first one was a great deal at the time.. but I chose it also for the fact that I can use the same setup nearly and go 9mm to .40 cal by just swapping out a magazine, a barrel, and a spring for the most part.


As you indicated 9mm is reliable and cheap to practice with and should I have to, god forbid.. but nearly everyone who carries including the NSP and Las Vegas Metro all carry .40 cal amd if I needed to pick up ammo off a downed body during SHTF or other life changing event among us, I'd be lucky enough to find what I need albeit. A bit of a morbid thought but the reality is the bad guys don' care about anyone's feelings.


I posted that calibr damage chart earlier.. you can see for the most part some surprising results from various firearms. I was intrigued by the FBI variant .38 and it' abilities over the standard issue. Not exactly a huge fan of revolvers unless I didn't' want to leave behind any evidence.. [ahem] but I can certainly appreciate the nostalgia behind them.


I'd like to get into a few other models, H&K has a few nice pcs and the biggest reason I started with Glock is because I can make my own from an 80% frame...



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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 04:12 am
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MaDMaXX

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I know i started the thread with this one, but i just got it back together tonight.

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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 03:51 pm
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ArcticWolf, your best bet would be Hornady Critical Defense, Rem Golden Sabre, or Speer/CCI Gold Dots. You might also want to consider getting a +P rated barrel for your R1. The +P is 10% more power than the top rated standard ammo. A new match grade barrel is a lot cheaper than a new gun. Unless you want a new gun...


Just food for thought a soft lead SWC will have just as much expansion as any of the premium JHP. I have also found a 200 gr bullet with its higher velocity has the same expansion as a 230 gr at it max velocity. 


BTW: my daily carry is a Glock 37 in 45GAP. I have carried 9mm and 32ACP but in todays crazy times I want something that doesn't need a follow up shot.  



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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 07:42 pm
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Tsquare wrote: BTW: my daily carry is a Glock 37 in 45GAP. I have carried 9mm and 32ACP but in todays crazy times I want something that doesn't need a follow up shot.  

You bring up an interesting topic. As "Civilian people" we are told and taught to eliminate a threat, NOT wound or incapacitate a threat in nearly every form of training I've ever experienced or used. After experiencing a couple of my own and several other gun training seminars/CORE classes; you fight the niggling voice in your head that tells you that you REALLY DON'T want to shoot anyone and then all the legalities, legal ramifications, and emotions, all the while do cart wheels through the back of your mind.

Yet we all go off on tangents when anyone does just that. Doesn't matter if its a person, Policy enforcers, the 68 yr old lady keeping from getting mugged.. whomever..

For as long as I was into guns and even when I finally got my first handgun, I was immensely intimidated to finally start carrying one in the chamber and knowing that.., by onlookers watching me (open carry States). Especially here in Nevada because oddly, open carry is more forgiving than concealed carry and seems to be afforded more leniency when it comes to legalities.



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 Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2017 08:24 pm
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I have never worried about the legalities except to make sure I was following the law. I have pulled my gun twice. Both times I did not have to fire but I was ready if either had not backed down. 



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Tsquare wrote: I have never worried about the legalities except to make sure I was following the law. I have pulled my gun twice. Both times I did not have to fire but I was ready if either had not backed down. 
Where as a [assumed] normal human being I understand that, I think out of everything I've seen and read, been taught, or learned through others; I've been taught that if you pull it, you'd better use it otherwise don't.

See even here in Nevada, you can take a open carry firearm into a bar and drink but NOT CCW. Now if I recall as it was in my infancy of firearm interests. In Michigan, you cannot open/CCW into a bar that serves alcohol. I mean shit, they wont even let you drink alcohol at a full nude bar in most states from what I hear. Two beers at 6', 2" and I'm considered legally drunk, cant drive a car, but I can have my gun on my hip.

LOL Nevada is truly the Wild Wild West sometimes..

Last edited on Sat Nov 18th, 2017 09:36 pm by Undrstm8ed



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"Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur" - ~ attributed to Petronius (Gaius Petronius Arbiter (ca. 27–66 AD))
Roman courtier during the reign of Nero.

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." - Thomas Paine


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Undrstm8ed wrote
LOL Nevada is truly the Wild Wild West sometimes..
LOL

I was living in a safe house in Kabul Afghanistan in 2007-2008 and working as a contractor. My EDC was an AEK 919 (the Russian version of a Uzi in 9MAK). Bribes to the local police chief was a way of life. We had extra patrols going by our house 3 to 4 times an hour 24 hours a day.

Have you ever been in a business (DHL) and had a guy blow up in the street outside because the police shot him?  Or had a recoilless rifle round go whizzing overhead, you dive to the ground, and it hits a 12' T-wall and land 3 feet from your face? Thank God it was a dud.



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True, a new barrel would be cheaper, however I would have gotten the 92A1 anyway, so for my situation it (in my head) makes sense to reap the benefits of the 92 in 9mm.



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 Posted: Sun Nov 19th, 2017 02:12 pm
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The 92 is a good gun but needs a little maintenance. Every 15k rounds the springs and locking block need to be replaced and they work better when they are heavily lubricated. I have had one for just over 30 years and have about 35k rounds through it. My 92 has been relegated to nightstand duty for almost 10 years. It only sees about 45 rounds per year though it now.



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That's no big deal. I definitely am a fan of the 92 series. I'd like to add an M9A3 to my collection as well, but for some reason Beretta is only offering that $1000 pistol in a few different shades from the diarrhea rainbow. Not a fan of FDE or OD, outside of a necessary camouflage role.

Speaking of new things, I finally have some new storage! Happy birthday to me. :cheers

Ten long-gun security cabinet with a set of custom lights activated by a hidden switch. Pistols don't fit inside, so I'll have to come up with something for that...

The lights I used were backlight strips out of a TV, running off 16 volts. 24 is probably what their actual forward voltage is, but they're plenty bright at 16.



And yes, I do need to organize my closet better. There's gun parts in there somewhere....



Last edited on Mon Nov 20th, 2017 02:54 am by TheArcticWolf1911



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 Posted: Mon Nov 20th, 2017 04:04 am
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Good stuff on the upgrade, it's good to go in steps when you're starting out - realising you need to have a container to control the environment in, is a much needed step, then you can move to security.



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 Posted: Mon Nov 20th, 2017 04:22 am
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Lucky for me, our house is usually either being heated or cooled, so controlling the environment is already being done for me, with the exception of desiccant pouches were applicable.

The grand majority of the time, it's three adults (including myself) and a beagle, so keeping them tightly locked up isn't a priority for me. Nice to have, but not at the forefront of my priorities.

Speaking of containers, I'm considering using 50 cal ammo boxes to keep handguns in. I've seen foam inserts that allow you to hold two pistols and four spare magazines (two per pistol) inside one box, which if need be can easily be converted to a locking container.

I would have liked to have had a deeper shelf inside the cabinet that allowed me to put pistols in on a rack, but it appears that isn't quite allowable given the dimensions. Maybe I'll custom make a shelf for it someday. That can wait though, as rifles are what I'm looking at for the most part, because not 21.



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Hmm, so environment control means keeping it the same (in this case)Humidity is your enemy, followed by rust ;)
I do not recommend desiccant packets, you can't tell when they're done/spent, and they essentially are a source of humidity at that point.  Use either a golden rod, or a 're-chargeable' desiccant system, i use the latter.
Security of your firearms includes theft, but it's not limited to it, it includes humidity as well as fire.
You will not be able to successfully control the humidity in the ammo box, not properly, so i don't recommend it, nor sponge, ever seen contact rust points?  Sponge collects/holds the moisture against the metal.
If you have constrained space for pistols (i do) i recommend the Armoury Racks solution, i got one early this year and had no idea how much space i'd gain Vs the previous two i had.

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Desiccant packets (silica gel) can be recharged by throwing them in the microwave. It will boil out the moisture. 





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How do you all feel about headspacing newly built firearms using new parts, specifically the AR-15 platform?

I'm referring specifically to Project Vietnam, whose parts are all factory new. I'm debating whether or not I want to fork out 60 dollars for two small pieces of metal or not.

Granted, this is my first build, but I look at it this way: The upper, barrel assembly and BCG are all coming from the same manufacturer, Brownells. That isn't a new name by any means, and I feel confident in that the parts are made correctly. I don't feel it necessary to headspace the rifle, but at the same time, there are those with more experience than I and may have a different outlook for reasons I haven't considered.



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You would be surprised at some of the big name AR's that leave the factory that are headspaced incorrectly. Some gun shops will rent you the go/no-go gauges.



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Hmm. I hadn't considered renting them. I might give my local gunshop a call and see if they'd be willing to rent 'em.



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I had a mid 90's Colt AR that wasn't headspaced correctly and it would split 1 out of 10 cases. It also had a BCG that was not staked. I learned a lot from that Colt.

You don't have to have the go/no-go gauges but they do make it easier. The way to do it without the gauges is detailed over at the 68forms.com
https://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?30829-Poor-man-s-way-to-check-head-space



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Just FYI, the link directs to a thread that apparently doesn't exist anymore. I will do some googling about the subject, however.

In unrelated news, I learned tonight that Zytel is one pain in the rear end to try and get to shine to any degree. The furniture I bought for Project Vietnam apparently is made out of Zytel, which is a type of Nylon.

With some searching, I came up with several other users attempting to do the same thing to other gun parts made from Zytel, with little success.

I did find that 0000 steel wool will smooth the surface a great deal without seeming to alter the appearance of the pieces. A wool pad on a drill with some mothers polish darkened the Zytel, smoothed it further, and gave it a bit of a satin sheen. The handguards came out the best, but the stock and pistol grip did work to a lesser extent. Still worth doing, imo.

Tomorrow I plan on taking photos during the day of the pieces now that they're done.

Speaking of which, for black friday I ordered another set of the m16a1 furniture at only 60 bucks. The stock and pistol grip are going to my Windham AR-15 (lovingly named Wendy, for obvious reasons), and the handguards are being saved for a later build down the road. I did some math, and it would cost me $15 more to buy just the stock and grip now, then a grip and handguard set later for the dissipator build later. With the sale, I save $35 (over time). Talk about making your money go further.



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Still considering if i want to bug my Wife to let me buy a 10/22 - still don't have one, nor really need one tbh, but they are cheap on black friday sales.



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TheArcticWolf1911
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I thought about getting one, but honestly, I think three different .22s is enough for me.



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1999 Ford Ranger XLT - 3.0 V6 4x4 - Loaded
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 Posted: Fri Nov 24th, 2017 07:38 am
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MaDMaXX

Hails from the land of rust!


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Yeah, i already have a nice Henry lever, but, i dunno, it's generally considered to quintessential.



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2002 - 3.0 - 4x2 - Edge

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 Posted: Fri Nov 24th, 2017 09:31 pm
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Tsquare
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I have had a Mannlicher stainless 10/22 since the early 80's. It is a good shooter and the full length stock will grab attention.

The 22 rifle I grab is a 1950's J.C. HIGGINS bolt action, magazine fed made by Marlin. It has the iron peep sights and is more accurate than I am.



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Tony
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'04 XLT regular cab 3.slo stepside
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